Michellins rule, Falkens drool - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

edevlin · 10-18-2006, 05:04 PM

As you may know, I got a set of aftermarket 18" Carrera wheels with Falken tires. They were replacing stock 17" wheels with Michellin P/S tires. First let me say, that like randellneighbor, the new wheels are beautful. But I am still getting used to how the car handles with the new wheels.

Even though the new 18" are wider, 8 inch front 10 inch rear, than my stock 17" wheels, the area of the tire that contacts the road is the same with the 18" Falken tires as with my 17" Michellins. The Michellin tire has a very flat profile on the tread, while the Falken tires are noticably more rounded, especially at the sides of the tire. The sidewall is lower in the Falken tires but the tread pattern is noticably deeper than on a new set of (few hundred miles) Michellin P/S.

I would have thought that the 18" tires would be wider, no doubt if I could have afforded 18" Michellin's they would be wider. I also would have thought that the lower sidewall of the 18" Falken tires would make for crisper handling. So far, that appears not to be the case. On hard coneriing the Falken tires seem like they are flexing (I think I am running the Porsche-recommended tire pressures) and not providing as firm of contact on the road. I understand that they have a harder rubber compound, but the tires are not sliding, it is almost as if the deeper tread pattern is making the tires "squisshy" on hard turns.

On the plus side the Falkens are a quiet tire and they provide a nice smooth ride, right up to the triple digits. I was just hoping for better cornering with the wider wheels, I guess you get what you pay for. Did I say that the new wheels look great....

Ed

kabel · 10-18-2006, 07:37 PM

Consensus in the autocross world is the newer Azenis 615 side wall is not as stiff as the older 215 they replace, hence the lack of crisp turn-in. Many swear by the Azenis, I have yet to personally experience them but i really am enjoying the set of PS2's I recently put on. But mine are on 17" stockers. My observation has been that tread depth appeared to be similar on each when new. The "squishy" sensation you describe is what we call tread squirm. You may want to experiment with various tire pressures to maximize turn-in feel and minimize the squirm. Now if you have an unlimited tire budget...

you could always have the tires shaved, that would also reduce the squirm...

MNBoxster · 10-18-2006, 08:37 PM

Hi,

The Falken is a pretty respected Tire in it's own right. But, Tires tend to be like Beer in that everyone has their Favorite.

New Tires need to be Broken-in which takes at least a couple hundred miles. I'd take it easy 'til then as new tires aren't at their optimum grip until they get a little scrubbed.

It's possible that with a little seasoning, you may change your current opinion, it may be too soon to judge. Hope so for your sake because you'll have them for a while...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

TriGem2k · 10-18-2006, 11:29 PM

What size tires came with the 18x8 and 18x10?

edevlin · 10-19-2006, 01:42 AM

The new Falken tires are 225/40 and 265/35 ZR 18, my P/S are 205/50 and 255/40 ZR17. Thanks for the suggestions on allowing the tires to break in and playing with tire pressures.

Ed

:dance:

John V · 10-19-2006, 03:47 AM

Tire widths are not standardized, so one manufacturer's 225 may be another manufacturer's 245. With an 8/10" wheels you could have gone with a wider tire. Some 285/30s will fit out back and most 245/35's and 245/40's will fit up front. A 235/40 is another size that would have worked up front.

edevlin · 10-19-2006, 05:24 AM

The Falken tires are rated to a maximum tire pressure of 50 lbs. Any recommendations of tire pressures to try in order to give me a little crisper response. I am not sure if I can mess up the wear pattern with too high of a pressure with our cars? I have only used the Porsche recommended pressures in the past, so I have no experience in this area, thanks,

Ed

Sammy · 10-19-2006, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

The Falken is a pretty respected Tire in it's own right. But, Tires tend to be like Beer in that everyone has their Favorite.

New Tires need to be Broken-in which takes at least a couple hundred miles. I'd take it easy 'til then as new tires aren't at their optimum grip until they get a little scrubbed.

It's possible that with a little seasoning, you may change your current opinion, it may be too soon to judge. Hope so for your sake because you'll have them for a while...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Couldn't agree with you more! I thought my Goodyear F1's were junk until after 500+ miles.

RandallNeighbour · 10-19-2006, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John V

Tire widths are not standardized, so one manufacturer's 225 may be another manufacturer's 245. With an 8/10" wheels you could have gone with a wider tire. Some 285/30s will fit out back and most 245/35's and 245/40's will fit up front. A 235/40 is another size that would have worked up front.

John, I have the same new setup as edevlin but with PS2's. If we were to put anything wider on our cars, rubbing would occur.

10-19-2006, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edevlin

The Falken tires are rated to a maximum tire pressure of 50 lbs. Any recommendations of tire pressures to try in order to give me a little crisper response. I am not sure if I can mess up the wear pattern with too high of a pressure with our cars? I have only used the Porsche recommended pressures in the past, so I have no experience in this area, thanks,

Ed

Edevlin, here is a very good thread to help you with your question:

http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5353&highlight=tire+pressure

racer_troy · 10-19-2006, 09:46 AM

Ed,

Sounds like you are getting alot of good advise in this thread...bully...also...if the falkens are new...good for you...as suggested, you will need to allow them to go through a couple of heat cycles so as the rubber/cord can set up (read: side wall to stiffen)...then you will have a different tire to enjoy...

regarding tire pressures...it's all personal...let your tires bed in and then if you are unhappy running 32-36 or whatever you are running...ask yourself what you don't like about the way they are performing (too much roll vs. not enough traction)...if you are still noticing some roll on turn-in, go to a parking lot where you can safely do some manuvering (salom, 90deg at speed) and chalk up your side walls...the falkens will have a roll indicator on the sidewall (arrow, triangle, rib, something at the edge of the usable tread) chalk all the way from where you know the tire is touching pavement (straight line driving) to a little past where it is rolling over (hard cornering)

...next run through your course, salom and right/left turns, and pay attention to how it feels...do i have the feedback and feel i need at turnin? Are the fronts pushing earlier or later? Are the rears breaking loose earlier or later on exit? How is the stopping distance affected?

Next, get out and look at the chaulk...if you are passing the edge of the usable tread, then your suspecions were correct and you need to add some air...vice versa if you are not rolling far enough...add/remove air in increments of 2lbs, rechaulk and run the course again and see: 1. does this feel right, and 2. how are my chaulk test results? After a few runs, you may find something that suits you, your upcoming drive, and your tires. Good luck.

On a side note, the rounded profile of the Falken is likely due to it's emphasis on corner control; e.g. as the car turns and the tire profile rolls, you still have usable tread contacting the ground.

On another side note...each tire has it's own feel...you may find that you are a michelin man aferall...

cheers,

--troy

MikenOH · 10-19-2006, 10:48 AM

one of the other lines?

oversteerdawg · 10-19-2006, 10:56 AM

Falken makes more than one tire. Which model do you have? The RT-615 is the only one comparable to a PS2.

edevlin · 10-20-2006, 01:56 AM

Great advice with the chalk on the tire sidewall racer troy, I will give it a try.

Ed

John V · 10-20-2006, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

John, I have the same new setup as edevlin but with PS2's. If we were to put anything wider on our cars, rubbing would occur.

Rubbing where specifically?

I had a set of 18x8s and 18x10s on my car with 245/40s and 275/35's. The front was close to the strut but could have easily moved another 5-10mm towards the fender with no worries about rubbing. Same with the rear.

If you want to run the widest possible rubber (not that this should be a goal necessarily) you have to start playing with wheel offsets to get what you want.

And like I said all tires are different!

edevlin · 10-26-2006, 02:14 PM

I got the all season Falken 512 tires,

Ed

dkh · 03-05-2008, 09:30 PM

This thread may have already run it's course over a year ago, but the concerned parties may want to check out the Feb. 2008 issue of Grass Roots Motorsports magazine. They did a test (p.115) of 3 versions of the SAME tire - the Yokohama S.drive in 16", 17", and 18" diameters. The 17" version scored the best times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by edevlin

As you may know, I got a set of aftermarket 18" Carrera wheels with Falken tires. They were replacing stock 17" wheels with Michellin P/S tires. First let me say, that like randellneighbor, the new wheels are beautful. But I am still getting used to how the car handles with the new wheels.

Even though the new 18" are wider, 8 inch front 10 inch rear, than my stock 17" wheels, the area of the tire that contacts the road is the same with the 18" Falken tires as with my 17" Michellins. The Michellin tire has a very flat profile on the tread, while the Falken tires are noticably more rounded, especially at the sides of the tire. The sidewall is lower in the Falken tires but the tread pattern is noticably deeper than on a new set of (few hundred miles) Michellin P/S.

I would have thought that the 18" tires would be wider, no doubt if I could have afforded 18" Michellin's they would be wider. I also would have thought that the lower sidewall of the 18" Falken tires would make for crisper handling. So far, that appears not to be the case. On hard coneriing the Falken tires seem like they are flexing (I think I am running the Porsche-recommended tire pressures) and not providing as firm of contact on the road. I understand that they have a harder rubber compound, but the tires are not sliding, it is almost as if the deeper tread pattern is making the tires "squisshy" on hard turns.

On the plus side the Falkens are a quiet tire and they provide a nice smooth ride, right up to the triple digits. I was just hoping for better cornering with the wider wheels, I guess you get what you pay for. Did I say that the new wheels look great....

Ed

steve00s · 03-06-2008, 07:59 AM

I replaced my Kumho's about a year and a half ago with the Falken RT-615's (225/255 17's) and they have been great. I have not driven on the PS2's so I cannot comment on them for comparison purposes. My first autocross last year with the new tires was on wet pavement and they were remarkable. Much superior to what I was driving on before. Next couple of events on dry pavement and I was hanging with the Hoosier crowd. For DE's, they were very good though got a little greasy towards the end of the sessions as they got hot. On the freeway and around town they provide a good ride and no amount of semi-normal street driving is going to get you in trouble because of the tires. I had the misfortune to get caught in the snow with them and was surprised that I actually had some amount of traction. Not the kind of tire you would want to go through a snowy, icy winter on but for a high performance tire they did an OK job. The best part about them is that they are cheap. I just put another set on for the upcoming season and they were less than $650 installed at Sears of all places.

edevlin · 03-06-2008, 10:46 AM

The Falken 512 is not a bad tire, actually FOR THE MONEY it's pretty good. I am running a set for my winter tires on 18 inch Carerra lightweight rims. One thing they have going for them is that they wear much better than the PS2's. Also, the Falken 512 is an all season tire, so unlike the PS2, it can be run when its quite cold outside.

Still, there is a world of difference between the Falken and the PS2's. As soon as the weather warms up I pop off the Falkens and put on my other set of aftermarket Carerra lightweight rims with PS2's and suddenly I am back in the slot.

Smooth, quiet, sticky, stiff sidewalls, the PS2 is a remarkable tire. Unfortunately, they seem to melt away before my eyes. I have gone through two sets and got gotten more than 5K out of eithor of them. BTW, I do not track the car, but I have been known to do some "spirited" driving on the back roads where I live. I would love to find a tire that does a lot of what the PS2 does for less money, it really hurts to reshoe the car with that sticky Michellin rubber....

Ed

John V · 03-08-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edevlin

The Falken 512 is not a bad tire, actually FOR THE MONEY it's pretty good. I am running a set for my winter tires on 18 inch Carerra lightweight rims. One thing they have going for them is that they wear much better than the PS2's. Also, the Falken 512 is an all season tire, so unlike the PS2, it can be run when its quite cold outside.

Just to be clear, the Falkens you're talking about are completely different tires from the ones steve00s is talking about.

In terms of dry-road grip, the PS2 would have a hard time keeping up with steve00s's Falken 615's. But the PS2 is probably a better all-around tire. For the money, it had better be.

I run the Kumho SPT and absolutely love them. But I run different tires for competition.