OK hear me out. Audi W12 swap

[truegearhead]

Over the past 24 hours I went off the deep end after I found out that an Audi W12 will bolt to the Audi 4.2L transmission which means that it will also bolt to a Boxster transmission. I also found out that a W12 is actually the same length (about) as a Boxster motor which allows you to avoid the LS1 problem. About an hour after these realizations I found myself negotiating the price to ship a (stay with me here) twin turbo W12 out of a Bentley silver spur (these motors are super cheap, under 5k) but unfortunately/fortunately the motor sold just after we settled on a price. My car is a track car, and the plan was to slowly build a tube frame for the back to accommodate any motor but with the compact packaging of the W12 I may not have too. Has anyone else chewed on this idea? The Silver Spur idea is not a good idea but the W12 idea I think is doable.

[JFP in PA]

Just because you can bolt things together does not always mean it is a good, or even viable combination. We had a customer that put a Porsche Mezger turbo engine into a Boxster, "because it would fit and bolt up". What he ended up with was a car that cost more then a brand new turbo car that would send the transmission to the junk yard every time it went under full boost from a rolling start.

"Just because you can" doesn't always mean it is a good idea...............

[Racer Boy]

My first thought was that it will probably break the transmission right away. My second thought was that would be a really cool (but extremely complicated) swap!

[aparke4]

Do you have to stay naturally aspirated for your race class?

[truegearhead]

Originally Posted by aparke4

Do you have to stay naturally aspirated for your race class?

Nope. I’d move up from TT5 but as long as it’s in the Porsche family I can fit into a class The Porsche family includes all of the VW products (Porsche, vw, Audi, Lamborghini, Bugatti).

[Gilles]

The W12 is a beautiful engine, but I am curious to know how much would a W12 weights?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4sEzlbeVMw&feature=emb_rel_end

[itsnotanova]

Originally Posted by Racer Boy

My first thought was that it will probably break the transmission right away. My second thought was that would be a really cool (but extremely complicated) swap!

That's what I was thinking too. That's if he uses the stock 5 speed. I would hope he would use the 987 6 speed instead as it has the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the 5 speed and is about as or slightly stronger than the 986 6 speed.

[Qingdao]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

"Just because you can" doesn't always mean it is a good idea...............

I'm full of bad ideas

[truegearhead]

Originally Posted by Racer Boy

My first thought was that it will probably break the transmission right away. My second thought was that would be a really cool (but extremely complicated) swap!

The Audi 01E transmission which uses the Boxster bell housing would be strong enough. Apparently they can hold 500jp on all wheel drive cars and far over that on rear wheel drive cars. They were used on Koenigsegg’s back in the day. I wonder how strong the Boxster S axles are

[itsnotanova]

The 01E is a beast but the problem with it is it's an AWD transmission here in the states. You have to get a 2wd 01E from Europe. There was a guy in Sweden that turned a AWD 01E into a 2wd O1E a few years back.

[Berryhill]

Thanks for the info, I can add it to the list for research. I just bought mine and plan for it to be track car only in the yrs to come. I didn't know that Porsche engines cost so much to rebuild, kinda understand after learning how they are actually built. I've been involved in around 400 LS swaps and really bored with them. I do like the 4.2 Audi but not much for aftermarket. Found the Porsche swapped page on FB and there's everything from Chevy v6 to Honda k series. I sorta like the j series Honda v6 as the market is growing. I like the idea of keep it simple stupid. So that's why I keep finding info in each corner.

I'm guessing by your pic, you are owner or involved with GT racing?

[thstone]

You had me at W12.

[W12B7AVANT]

This ever come to fruition? I done a w12 swap but into a smaller chassis Audi. Still working on the car. Runs and drives but not road ready yet. W12 weighs in at 540lbs by the way.

[ike84]

Originally Posted by W12B7AVANT

This ever come to fruition? I done a w12 swap but into a smaller chassis Audi. Still working on the car. Runs and drives but not road ready yet. W12 weighs in at 540lbs by the way.

How did you handle the ECU setup? Did you go with stock or aftermarket? Please provide as many details as you can type! I ask because I am in love/slightly obsessed with this idea but can't get past the computer and the insane complexity of it (far moreso than the motor itself lol)

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[W12B7AVANT]

Originally Posted by ike84

How did you handle the ECU setup? Did you go with stock or aftermarket? Please provide as many details as you can type! I ask because I am in love/slightly obsessed with this idea but can't get past the computer and the insane complexity of it (far moreso than the motor itself lol)

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Here is a link to my build page in FB. ECM's were a pain. Madness Motorsports was able to modify my files so i could run the manual transmission and a tuner in US is fine tuning everything once i an able to get some runs logged.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/180174439384748/?ref=share

[W12B7AVANT]

Originally Posted by ike84

How did you handle the ECU setup? Did you go with stock or aftermarket? Please provide as many details as you can type! I ask because I am in love/slightly obsessed with this idea but can't get past the computer and the insane complexity of it (far moreso than the motor itself lol)

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build page on FB as W12B7AVANT. ECM's were a pain. Madness Motorsports was able to modify my files so i could run the manual transmission and a tuner in US is fine tuning everything once i am able to get some runs logged. ECM's are factory. No aftermarket ECM's available for this engine setup....2 throttle bodies, 4 knock sensors 12 injectors and 12 coils. I talk to several aftermarket ecm companies. My ECM's are ME7.1.1 with the infineon processor. They are easy to work with. I also have a set with the ST10 processor but they are a pain to remove the immobilizer and get into boot mode.

[ike84]

Originally Posted by W12B7AVANT

build page on FB as W12B7AVANT. ECM's were a pain. Madness Motorsports was able to modify my files so i could run the manual transmission and a tuner in US is fine tuning everything once i am able to get some runs logged. ECM's are factory. No aftermarket ECM's available for this engine setup....2 throttle bodies, 4 knock sensors 12 injectors and 12 coils. I talk to several aftermarket ecm companies. My ECM's are ME7.1.1 with the infineon processor. They are easy to work with. I also have a set with the ST10 processor but they are a pain to remove the immobilizer and get into boot mode.

Ahhhh I thought that I recognized your handle. You, the German mail truck, and the hungarian a4 are the only 3 confirmed builds that I could find with a w12 in the world!

Thanks for the info. That is a heck of an undertaking.

Gear head went with a twin turbo ABZ setup running KKK turbos and a VEMS from EFI direct. His build thread is in progress, time trial aero build is the name of it. He's finishing up the exhaust now, and I'm starting to think his actual goal is to build a rocket ship!

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[W12B7AVANT]

Originally Posted by ike84

Ahhhh I thought that I recognized your handle. You, the German mail truck, and the hungarian a4 are the only 3 confirmed builds that I could find with a w12 in the world!

Thanks for the info. That is a heck of an undertaking.

Gear head went with a twin turbo ABZ setup running KKK turbos and a VEMS from EFI direct. His build thread is in progress, time trial aero build is the name of it. He's finishing up the exhaust now, and I'm starting to think his actual goal is to build a rocket ship!

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I haven't seen the Hungarian swap. Got more information on that one? Quick search pulled nothing.

Definitely a challenging swap. Ive wanted to swap this engine forever and was lucky enough to find a whole car really cheap...like 1k cheap. Car had damage to bumper and core support but ran.

Currently Im having to redo the radiator since i goofed up a couple weeks ago and let a strut fall off the press and ruin my radiator. worked out great though, the new radiator is smaller and fits into the original core support. Once i get the car done and working well, i plan on swapping in the W12TT from a Bentley. Im running Bentley exhaust manifolds on mine now. Just need a little modification and the turbos will fit just fine in the B7 chassis.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by ike84

ABZ setup running KKK turbos

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I realize it is a real company, just a really bad choice in name

[ike84]

Hah, no kidding! Borg Warner, those crazy cats.

Google "S2 W12 for sale" ... It will pull up the hungarian build

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