Odd problem, simple solution

[JayG]

A couple of weeks a go, I went to go for a drive, started her up and she was running rough. A few seconds later, the CEL popped on. Now I know I have a bad cat, so that's not so unusual, the rough idle was.

Connected my OBD2 adapter and it was throwing a CYL 5 misfire code. Shut it down and since I have 92k on the clock and had a cyl 3 missfire about a year ago, I figured it was a coil pack going bad. I ordered a new one online and went to put it in last night and when I check the coil pack, both bolts were missing! It was also loose.

Pushed it in, found a pair of bolts from the last one I replaced and guess what??? Runs just like it is supposed to.

Now I have a spare coil pack for my track box right next to my spare ABS sensor

[tlc356]

So who installed the pac that became loose? LOL-don't answer. Tom

[JayG]

Originally Posted by tlc356

So who installed the pac that became loose? LOL-don't answer. Tom

some German named Hans

Factory install

[thstone]

Originally Posted by JayG

some German named Hans

Factory install

Jay, I think that Tom is asking who most recently replaced the spark plugs. That would have probably been the last time that the coil pack bolts were removed and re-installed. Whoever did the work might have forgot to torque them.

Glad that it was an easy fix.

[NewArt]

I remember one time I had a similar situation with the inner axle flange bolts. I had changed the boots and after a few weeks the bolts loosened off. Fortunately, I caught it in time! Perhaps a few drops of blue loctite would help?

[Boxstard]

Originally Posted by NewArt

I remember one time I had a similar situation with the inner axle flange bolts. I had changed the boots and after a few weeks the bolts loosened off. Fortunately, I caught it in time! Perhaps a few drops of blue loctite would help?

I think you are supposed to re-torque axle bolts after 500 miles, if I recall.

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by Boxstard

I think you are supposed to re-torque axle bolts after 500 miles, if I recall.

That would be counterproductive as it would break the thread locker that you should have applied.
Re-torquing the axle flange bolts is not recommended.

I've read of these breaking loose after removal/installation (in one case even breaking the transmission mount point off of the trans case), so was wary when I did my clutch. I used blue thread locker and a touch of clear red enamel on the head of the bolts (a blob that was on the side of the head and the mating surface) so I could check periodically to see if they broke loose. That was a year ago and none ever did.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by thstone

Jay, I think that Tom is asking who most recently replaced the spark plugs. That would have probably been the last time that the coil pack bolts were removed and re-installed. Whoever did the work might have forgot to torque them.

Glad that it was an easy fix.

haha I was being a little funny with my Hans comment.

In thinking about it, I had the plugs replaced almost 4 years ago, shortly after I bought the car. It was before I really started to wrench the car myself and the guy who did the plug replacement is an Uber-Mechanic for Porsche cars. He is the type that can rebuild your motor without looking in the book for clearances and torque settings.

I guess a couple of years of tracking and AX loosened them up. I going to check them all this weekend to double check tightness

[BFeller]

Originally Posted by particlewave

That would be counterproductive as it would break the thread locker that you should have applied.
Re-torquing the axle flange bolts is not recommended.

I've read of these breaking loose after removal/installation (in one case even breaking the transmission mount point off of the trans case), so was wary when I did my clutch. I used blue thread locker and a touch of clear red enamel on the head of the bolts (a blob that was on the side of the head and the mating surface) so I could check periodically to see if they broke loose. That was a year ago and none ever did.

Nice idea on the paint blob.

[911monty]

Originally Posted by Boxstard

I think you are supposed to re-torque axle bolts after 500 miles, if I recall.

Originally Posted by particlewave

That would be counterproductive as it would break the thread locker that you should have applied.
Re-torquing the axle flange bolts is not recommended.

I've read of these breaking loose after removal/installation (in one case even breaking the transmission mount point off of the trans case), so was wary when I did my clutch. I used blue thread locker and a touch of clear red enamel on the head of the bolts (a blob that was on the side of the head and the mating surface) so I could check periodically to see if they broke loose. That was a year ago and none ever did.

If the axle bolts were installed correctly then there is no reason to not recheck torque, especially for the first time DIY'er. As long as you check to the original torque value there will be no additional movement. However if it does move then they got loose for some reason , dirt, corrosion or incorrect tightening sequence etc. and you will be thankful for the chance to correct the problem.
I checked mine about a week after i C/O the output seal and again when I installed the Koni FSDs. No movement either time. Bonus tip: This task is made especially easy with a 3' extension.

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by 911monty

If the axle bolts were installed correctly then there is no reason to not recheck torque, especially for the first time DIY'er. As long as you check to the original torque value there will be no additional movement. However if it does move then they got loose for some reason , dirt, corrosion or incorrect tightening sequence etc. and you will be thankful for the chance to correct the problem.
I checked mine about a week after i C/O the output seal and again when I installed the Koni FSDs. No movement either time. Bonus tip: This task is made especially easy with a 3' extension.

Aside from the linked post below, I read on another forum specifically to use medium thread locker and leave them be because trying to tighten again could weaken the thread locker. I can't find it now, but I recall it being a reputable source (possibly JR).

http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/64679-help-removing-cv-joint-bolts.html

[911monty]

Funny. I thought about linking that post or adding something like "I know a professional shop such as JFP's does not bring back to re-torque" etc. I did say if "done correctly" where JFP says "proper installation is critical",(disclaimer: I am a fan of JFP's terminology) I think meaning parts are clean, proper tightening sequence etc. This may or not be true with a DIYer since you don't know their skill level or attention to detail.
So what is said is, that if it was done correctly the first time, and you do not exceed the original torque value, then there will be no further movement of the fastener. ESPECIALLY if you used blue loctite which has now hardened and further increases the torque necessary to move the fastener. So if you are absolutely confident in your installation then don't re-torque, but if that one spec of sand/rust finally grinds down and the bolts get loose....Now I never think about mine, How long and often are you going to check that red paint? Of course I also use a torque wrench when installing my wheels and check them again after a few days, or for that matter whenever I happen to be walking around with a torque wrench and it is convenient.

Something I used to do when installing ARP rod bolts was after using a stretch gage to torque I'd throw a torque wrench set slightly below desired value on to verify. Totally unnecessary but also doesn't hurt.

[Boxstard]

I know that you guys out there are experts and do right things. But I personally never used locktite on axle bolts wrenching multiple cars I own(ed) and never had issues.... Just degrease bolt/ thread well and use torque wrench, then retorque once later. Actually do not recall any bolts got loosened up.

I do not recall my reference books (Bentley and 101 Projects) mention to use the locktite. Maybe shops use it as it is not convenient for customers to come back for retorque and just to be safe when they don't?

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by Boxstard

I know that you guys out there are experts and do right things. But I personally never used locktite on axle bolts wrenching multiple cars I own(ed) and never had issues.... Just degrease bolt/ thread well and use torque wrench, then retorque once later. Actually do not recall any bolts got loosened up.

I do not recall my reference books (Bentley and 101 Projects) mention to use the locktite. Maybe shops use it as it is not convenient for customers to come back for retorque and just to be safe when they don't?

Not using thread locker on a critical fastener, like an axle bolt, is a mistake.
Do it right. Do it once.

Nothing more to say...

[Boxstard]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Not using thread locker on a critical fastener, like an axle bolt, is a mistake.
Do it right. Do it once.

Nothing more to say...

The question is if it is designed to use loctite or not, and I think it is not. I did not notice any loctite residue on bolt threads if originally applied from the factory.

I guess IMSB was not designed to explode before the warranty either so it's at my own risk... but I do not lose sleep over it, after putting 5,000 miles since the retorque 8 months ago.

[911monty]

Sad Really.. Understandable for a shop since time=money. Which I think really is the point of JFP's post. Hell I work on mine for recreation. But the question really is, is it worth an investment of 5 minutes of your time to verify, or risk investing in a flatbed and any collateral damage. If it's tight no harm no foul. If it's loose retorque and carry on. If it moves and you used loctite, nothing on the box says one time use only. Pull each bolt clean, reapply, re torque and hoist a cold one. And if you're so sure done right done once, what's the red paint for. Sheesh. Let's just keep these things on the road.


Sorry for the hijack JayG.

[particlewave]

The red paint is for redundancy since the axle bolts are notorious for backing out and/or snapping off. It's also convenient for a quick 10 second visual inspection through the wheel instead of all the work of jacking the car up, getting tools out and getting under the car.

[911monty]

Yeah whatever. i could fall back on yeah I did mine and nothing failed therefore you don't need to. But if one person followed my smug advice and something failed and caused damage they couldn't afford to repair, that's unacceptable. To loosely quote Gelbster "Do no harm" and yeah you could check every 50 freakin miles if you wanted since nothing would be harmed.

[particlewave]

Axles swinging around after breaking free of the output flange can do some damage.

Not meaning to give anyone a hard time, just better safe than sorry. Whatever makes you feel best, do that.

[911monty]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Axles swinging around after breaking free of the output flange can do some damage.

Exactly.