which ims bearing upgrade

[Xcellr8]

Hi all,
The timing of this thread was perfect for me as I just pulled an IMSB from a 2002 3.2. The bearing had failed to the point where heat from the failed bearing had "smeared" the metal behind it. Since it was toast, and because of this discussion, I decided to pull the seal/plug out of the IMS. Based on Pedro's video, I expected to find rancid oil, but low and behold it was clean. Totally clean. No oil. Have there been different seals/plugs to the shaft? This one appeared to be two pieces, a steel sleeve with a steel plug pressed into the end of the shaft.

So, perhaps gas leaked out of the shaft, but oil was not drawn in to the shaft.

As an aside, though this motor is toast, for future service, is it a good idea to pull that seal/plug to learn if the shaft is clean? That would require that the seal/plug for the IMS be available from the dealer. Anyone know?

Thanks,
Joe

[Gelbster]

Originally Posted by Xcellr8

Hi all,
The timing of this thread was perfect for me as I just pulled an IMSB from a 2002 3.2. The bearing had failed to the point where heat from the failed bearing had "smeared" the metal behind it. Since it was toast, and because of this discussion, I decided to pull the seal/plug out of the IMS. Based on Pedro's video, I expected to find rancid oil, but low and behold it was clean. Totally clean. No oil. Have there been different seals/plugs to the shaft? This one appeared to be two pieces, a steel sleeve with a steel plug pressed into the end of the shaft.

So, perhaps gas leaked out of the shaft, but oil was not drawn in to the shaft.

As an aside, though this motor is toast, for future service, is it a good idea to pull that seal/plug to learn if the shaft is clean? That would require that the seal/plug for the IMS be available from the dealer. Anyone know?

Thanks,
Joe

"gas leaked out". Do you mean "air" ?
More important - was there any trace of grease in the ball race? I guess not.That is the problem. Grease has 3 main components oil,saponifier and filler/snake oil. So the heat(?) caused seal failure+separation and the liquid fraction leaked out.There may be a only a solid 'crud' remaining?
Why do you think the motor is "toast" ?If the IMSB did not disintegrate and their is no collateral damage ,maybe it can be rescued?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

Why do you think the motor is "toast" ?If the IMSB did not disintegrate and their is no collateral damage ,maybe it can be rescued?

I seriously doubt it; I have never seen an engine that showed any signs of an IMS bearing failure that did not have metal everywhere in it.

[Gelbster]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

I seriously doubt it; I have never seen an engine that showed any signs of an IMS bearing failure that did not have metal everywhere in it.

I am guessing but I think what JFP wisely means is that if there is any metal missing from the IMSB - it is 'toast'. In which case I agree. Perhaps I misunderstood the 'smearing' description of the race and thought that no metal had separated ?
I had a similar issue and just dismantled the entire engine ,repaired/rebuilt it and we'll see how long it lasts....I was lucky that the collateral damage was minimal.

[Xcellr8]

The bearing had come apart and the filter was production based, so yes, I'm sure metal is everywhere, thus, its toast. But the question was, "is removing the plug to investigate the interior of the shaft a good idea?" Clearly, it would only be a good idea if the bearing failure is caught before becoming catastrophic (no reason to investigate further if rebuild is inevitable), even then however, only if the plug is "serviceable", i.e. a replacement is readily available. Is it?

[Gelbster]

Here is a parts diagram -tell us which part number you are calling a "plug".
M96.20 Camshaft M96.21/22 Driving Mechanism M96.23/24
or:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/14-ENGINE-Intermediate_Shaft_Bearing/images_small/Pic019.jpg
Reluctantly I did what Jake asked. Mine had an LN ceramic IMSB that had less than 1000 miles on it when #6 c/s bearing was damaged.No fault of the LN part.

[Jake Raby]

Some people say "the debris was really small, its not a problem".

well, let me tell you, if you think that, you'll learn fast. the smaller the debris the WORSE it is! The heavy stuff sits at the bottom of the sump, it doesn't splash all around inside the engine as it is suspended in the oil.

I'll take chunks any day over the small, fine stuff, thats microscopic in size.

If the bearing begins to fail, unless its caught at Stage 2, or prior, take the whole damn engine apart. Do it now.

[Xcellr8]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

Here is a parts diagram -tell us which part number you are calling a "plug".
M96.20 Camshaft M96.21/22 Driving Mechanism M96.23/24
or:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/14-ENGINE-Intermediate_Shaft_Bearing/images_small/Pic019.jpg
Reluctantly I did what Jake asked. Mine had an LN ceramic IMSB that had less than 1000 miles on it when #6 c/s bearing was damaged.No fault of the LN part.

Thanks for the parts diagram, but I do not see the "plug" in the diagram, nor is it included in the Pelican's parts photo. Attached are a few photos of the plug I pulled. The photos show what you would see if you were inside the intermediate shaft looking out towards the shaft bearing. You are seeing the back of the "plug" which is pressed inside a steel sleeve, which is pressed into the bearing end of the shaft before the bearing, thus "sealing" the hollow shaft from the bearing.

Now, most of the destruction on the other end was caused by my welding a nut to the sleeve to use a slide hammer puller to get the plug out of the shaft.