fitting an off the shelf SKF bearing for IMS

[Gelbster]

Hunting for el cheapo parts = car flipper/shade tree mechanic?
I wonder how many Craigs List M96-engined cars have generic IMSB with the old bolt and cover re-installed + lotsa goop to seal it for the first 100 miles?

[JFP in PA]

If it were only people trying to flip cars, I could understand it; but it isn't that at all. It is people truly playing Russian roulette with their cars in order to save a buck. I'd like to introduce them to the guy I had in the shop this afternoon with an IMS failure in an otherwise immaculate 986. He was nearly in tears when I had to tell him his engine is full of metal and either needs to be replaced or rebuilt, either of which is going to cost almost as much (if not more) as he still owes on the car. Why people even think about experimenting with unknown bearings is beyond me.

[Hogosha]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

If it were only people trying to flip cars, I could understand it; but it isn't that at all. It is people truly playing Russian roulette with their cars in order to save a buck. I'd like to introduce them to the guy I had in the shop this afternoon with an IMS failure in an otherwise immaculate 986. He was nearly in tears when I had to tell him his engine is full of metal and either needs to be replaced or rebuilt, either of which is going to cost almost as much (if not more) as he still owes on the car. Why people even think about experimenting with unknown bearings is beyond me.

And that my friends is sound advice.

[Jake Raby]

You could have added the failures LN/Flat6 went through with off the shelf items and even one of their early designs had to be redone after the first dozens were out there and they got some more experience on them.

What you can really add is that we didn't have anyone else top "copy". We blazed the trails and spent the money to not only develop the bearing products, but also the tools and then the procedure to retrofit.

You want to talk about pain? How about wasting 4,400.00 in less than one minute when something didn't work. How about the first IMSB I tried to fit wouldn't even allow the flywheel to pass through the flange? We did this all from ground level; but we made one critical mistake and that was not following through to patent the system retrofit, period. If we had the experience with the Patent office that we do now, we would have certainly protected it and licensed the ability to retrofit the bearing, but we didn't and thats allowed copycats to benefit from the trails we blazed. Remember, the IMSB was said to be "non- serviceable" by Porsche.

But forum posters think that specs are everything and trumpet their "success" after a few miles.

No, people have no clue what it takes to invent something, develop it, have 41 revisions, come up with the tools, come up with the instructions and then market it.

Some people are happy if something just runs after they do a job; they don't have to go to sleep at night knowing that 25,000 engines are out there, fitted with their parts. The majority of those were also installed by techs that truly don't understand all the things that can kill a retrofitted IMSB.

I hope they don't have as many failed test engines as LN/Flat6 did before they got it right.

I don't know how they could afford to... With us, I'd build engines up with questionable parts just to break it. My record was an engine ruining for 210 hours without being shut down, night and day.

Another difference is the kit contains other improved parts beyond the bearing itself. From flange to bolts to seals to ....

Thats never considered...

We never stop development. I am currently working on completing another product for the dual row engines and also a tool that will be used to measure another critical distance in regard to fitting an IMSR. This tool will help installers pre- qualify engines with greater confidence

[Van914]

One of my he first things I did after buying my 2000. Had my Indy install LN bearing and oil filter conversation.

[Bigsmoothlee]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

All thats been offered is an updated IMS Shaft with bearing. The original bearing has no Porsche part # by its self.

Interesting, Town Motors Porsche in Englewood NJ gave me a quote on a single row bearing a few years ago, not that I would buy it though. Maybe its no longer available.

I only go the LN ceramic bearing route.

[Rina]

Does it have to be from the UK? SKF 6204 single row https://www.mrosupply.com/bearings/radial-ball-bearings/320569_6204_skf-bearing/, free shipping, could be an option for you.

[mikefocke]

There are a dozen kits being sold out there. A dozen would be engineers with SKU's of possible cheap bearings. And many posters have a financial interest or emotional interest in the selling of a particular kit. Emotional because, by convincing you to buy their choice, they confirm in their mind the wisdom of their choice.

In the end it is your money, car and choice.

There are many reasons why a part like the IMS might fail.

1. Manufacturing variations.

2. Installation variations in the experience, technique

3. Pre-install condition of the engine

4. Contamination from previous failure

5. Failure of the block holes through which shafts emerge to be true to each other

6. Failure of other parts that were marginal or reused.

You get what you pay for often times.

And none of these have statistical assurance of any great superiority. Remember how many times Porsche engineers made a bad choice. Or they were overruled by finance majors.

One supplier has more experience than any other, more cars with more miles and more years and thus more test cases than any other. So we know more about their bearings than any other supplier. Because we watch the forums. (I have for 8 years and something like 8 forums. Daily!)

Unfortunately, they also supply 4 bearings of differing designs and this has now muddied the waters so make sure you know which bearing is being discussed, quoted, or installed.

My '01S with the single row has its original IMS at ~90k miles through 5 owners and 14 years. Were I to own it still and wanted to keep it 5 years, I'd use the IMS Retrofit from LN. Keep it forever, The Solution. But The Solution only makes sense in the context of a total rebuild and upgrade with no cost limits. Since the labor for any kit is so similar, and since the forum reports on any other kit is so sparse, and since the Retrofit is priced in the middle....

Good luck in whatever you chose to do.

[eturk]

Originally Posted by jimk04

Im taking the trans off the car next week primarily for a clutch job.

I have decided on using a simple SKF/NSK bearing as one has been in there for 100k miles so far no problem, and the main reason is that the engine will be removed also in about a year to swap in another engine I am building.....so I dont want to spend a fortune on a mega bearing upgrade for this engine for a short time.

My questions are....

. should I get standard clearance bearing or a C3?

Assuming I cant get any oil into the IMS, should I leave both rubber seals in situ on the bearing....maybe remove one seal and repack with grease before refitting both seals??

Thanks

@jimk04 What did you end up doing? How did it last?

[Racer Boy]

Considering that jimk04 posted this nearly five years ago, he may not be around to answer your question.

When I had my clutch replaced, I went with the LN bearing.

[morgal48]

Duplicate deleted.

[morgal48]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

No, people have no clue what it takes to invent something, develop it, have 41 revisions, come up with the tools, come up with the instructions and then market it.

Truer words were never spoken. Having intellectual property 'misappropriated' by others is devastating. Sadly, protecting a patent for a small business person is also a losing proposition. But the lawyers do well.

[edc]

Originally Posted by Racer Boy

Considering that jimk04 posted this nearly five years ago, he may not be around to answer your question.

When I had my clutch replaced, I went with the LN bearing.

He is still on Boxa.net infrequently and as far as I can tell still tracks his car a few times a year.