Poll: RMS and Engine problem questionaire

[porsche986spyder]

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

RMS - short for "you have a leak where your engine meets your tranny and we're not fixing this factory flaw in our engines ... and we need to warn you right now, you need to bend over and take it like a prison inmate who has to pay $800 or more to get raped."

Yeah, it means Rear Main Seal.

Then my answer is yep. I had this problem too. Bought mine used with 47,000 miles on it last year. It's an 01, 2.7ltr. This was before I joined this message board and found out about this problem. Worst part was right after I bought the car and actually sat down in the car to drive it off of the parking lot, the guy who sold me the car says, "Oh by the way, it has a small oil leak, nothing major, only about 3-4 drops and its speratic. Not constant." Then he tells me, its common in all Porsche Boxsters. What could I do, I had just signed the paperwork. I was VERY PISSED OFF! I felt like I got screwed. Luck for me, I reported them to the B.B.B. and dealer fixed it for free.

[porsche986spyder]

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

where your engine meets your tranny

Yeah, it means Rear Main Seal.

So is it an engine oil leak? Or a transmission fluid leak? Just curious.

[YellowJacket]

So I get a call from the wifey yesterday evening telling me how cool it is that oil drips puddle up nicely on top of the epoxy floor in the garage instead of sinking into it like with other floors. Hmm... score 1 point for the geniuses in the garage floor coatings industry, score -800 points for my wallet. :-(

Called the dealership and made an appointment for Friday for what appears will be an RMS replacement. Throw in $900 for 4 new tires, and even if they find that the clutch/flywheel are in perfect condition, this will be more than I've spent on the car in the entire 2 years I've owned it!

Grr... I've finally been bit by the RMS. 2 months after the warranty expired.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by porsche986spyder

Then my answer is yep. I had this problem too. Bought mine used with $47,000 miles on it last year. It's an 01, 2.7ltr. This was before I joined this message board and found out about this problem. Worst part was right after I bought the car and actually sat down in the car to drive it off of the parking lot, the guy who sold me the car says, "Oh by the way, it has a small oil leak, nothing major, only about 3-4 drops and its speratic. Not constant." Then he tells me, its common in all Porsche Boxsters. What could I do, I had just signed the paperwork. I was VERY PISSED OFF! I felt like I got screwed. Luck for me, I reported them to the B.B.B. and dealer fixed it for free.

That is why we recommend the PPI BEFORE buying!

[silverboxter]

Second owner. Bought my 2001 in September 2006 with 62k miles from the original owner in Beverly Hills. Now it has 67k miles. No RMS...but you guys are sure scaring the spit out of me! I love this car and plan on keeping it forever.

[porsche986spyder]

So is it an engine oil leak? Or a transmission fluid leak? Just curious.

[RandallNeighbour]

A failing RMS produces an oil leak.

[RandallNeighbour]

Originally Posted by silverboxter

No RMS...but you guys are sure scaring the spit out of me!

When I heard about it it freaked me out too! However, after a couple of months I realized it's just another repair that you may or may not need. If it happens, it will probably start dripping a little before it drips a lot and you can see it and take care of it before it gets bad and you lose any significant amount of oil.

My buddy has a 2001 Toyota ForeRunner that's a really nice, low mileage car and he takes great care of it. He had to put in a new engine about six months ago. Even dependable Toyotas have problems...

[Blueboxster22]

Hi,
Just resgistered today on 986 forum. You hit on a very serious issue. I have researched the RMS failure thing for the past few weeks since my 2001 Boxster just experienced this failure along with the IMS and valve gaskets. This is an epidemic which Porsche has turned their heads on. The bottom line is you own a Boxster, you probably will experience this issue some time before 60,000 miles. All the Porshe related web sites I have been on state the same. If oyu want to talk about a class action suit, this would be a good one. I spoke to both Porsche and my local dealer and they both said no to a good will offering to help defray the cost. I ended up finding an excellent local German car mechanic who will be doing it for almost half the cost of the rip off dealer price. Here are some specs on my Boxster:
2001 Boxster
53,000 miles
oil changes every 5,000 miles usually once a year with mobil 1 (0-40)
all maintainence done as directed by manual

Rick

Originally Posted by MikenOH

Please answer yes or no to the following questions related to RMS and engine failure. Please include particular information in your response regarding the year, mileage, model, whether the car was purchased new or used, transmission type, driving style and adherence to scheduled maintenance and break-in recommendations. Thanks for participating. (hope this appears as intended)


Have you experienced a RMS leak? (yes/no)
Have you experienced mutiple RMS leaks (yes/no)
Have you experienced an engine failure (yes/no)

[Ed Hess]

Here is my RMS saga:

I bought a 2003 Porsche Boxster in a private sale on 4/10/2006 with 44, 050 miles on it and the warranty was in effect until 12/12/2006 or 50K miles.

I had the car inspected on 4/14/2006 and was told the rear main seal (rms) was starting to leak. I took it to Brandywine Porsche (SE PA) on 4/28/2006 at 44,568 miles and had the RMS replaced under warranty. It started leaking again a few months later so I took it to a different Porsche dealer (Don Rosen - largest Porsche dealer in PA) thinking they might be able to do a better job. This was on 11/9/2006 at 47,500 miles and it was replaced under warranty again.

I took it to be inspected again this April and was told the rms was starting to seep again. I took it into to Don Rosen Porsche on 4/17/2007 and they agreed in writing that there was "very slight oil seepage" but told me unless it is dripping on the ground and there is noticeable oil on the bottom of the car Porsche will not fix it. They did offer to look at it again in another 1K miles but told me "warranty work is only guaranteed during the warranty period."

I found this unacceptable and contacted Porsche Cars North America on 4/23/2007 and opened case #5123516. The regional rep left me a message on 4/24/2007 and said "to contact Don Rosen with the understanding that the car is out of warranty and any further repairs would be your responsibility."

There have been a large number of cases where Porsche has replaced the engine after multiple rms fixes according to a number of on-line message boards (www.ppbb.com etc.). I think if a seal is seeping it has failed and will only get worse so that is why I need to move on this. Obviously, they have not been able to fix it while it was under warranty. I think their policy would not hold up in court and I have a good case which I am currently getting counsel from an attorney on.

I don't think I'm covered under the PA Lemon law because it is just for the first 12 months and 3 repair attempts. The Federal Lemon Law (Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act) looks more promising:

§ 2304. Federal minimum standards for warranties

(a) Remedies under written warranty; duration of implied warranty; exclusion or limitation on consequential damages for breach of written or implied warranty; election of refund or replacement
In order for a warrantor warranting a consumer product by means of a written warranty to meet the Federal minimum standards for warranty—
(1) such warrantor must as a minimum remedy such consumer product within a reasonable time and without charge, in the case of a defect, malfunction, or failure to conform with such written warranty;
(2) notwithstanding section 2308 (b) of this title, such warrantor may not impose any limitation on the duration of any implied warranty on the product;
(3) such warrantor may not exclude or limit consequential damages for breach of any written or implied warranty on such product, unless such exclusion or limitation conspicuously appears on the face of the warranty; and
(4) if the product (or a component part thereof) contains a defect or malfunction after a reasonable number of attempts by the warrantor to remedy defects or malfunctions in such product, such warrantor must permit the consumer to elect either a refund for, or replacement without charge of, such product or part (as the case may be). The Commission may by rule specify for purposes of this paragraph, what constitutes a reasonable number of attempts to remedy particular kinds of defects or malfunctions under different circumstances. If the warrantor replaces a component part of a consumer product, such replacement shall include installing the part in the product without charge.

[Brucelee]

Go get them.

Can you hear all of us cheering?

[AUDIOGUY]

I am afraid to pick one of the catagories. If I select "No" my luck is that I will wake up tomorrow with a spot in my garage!

[MikenOH]

( the original and 2 replacements) it would seem that the seal failure is the symptom of having a crank that isn't concentric--or at least within Porsche specs.

The proper fix would be an engine replacement which will probably be difficault to get out of Porsche. My guess is if you where the original owner, it might be easier sledding on this, but..

Given the history of leakage before the warranty expired--indicating this wasn't just a bad seal--you would think Porsche would do the right thing.

Anyway, best of luck with it.

[shelloiluk]

Hi there,

My RMS was replaced by Porsche UK dealership in July 2007, its a 2003 March model.

despite very high miles this was repaired FOC under the 5 yr warranty no questions asked

Porsche UK also suggested clutch replacement, I paid for the unit and they provided free labour as they had to access the clutch unit anyway for RMS replacement.

Good luck with your RMS warranty issue.

Just thinking does anyone know if porsche developed a brain and resolved this whole issue on the 987 model ?

[RandallNeighbour]

Originally Posted by shelloiluk

Just thinking does anyone know if porsche developed a brain and resolved this whole issue on the 987 model ?

No.

They still have RMS issues with Boxsters and Caymans. They also have RMS issues with Cayennes as well. Note that the problem isn't so much with the seal itself, although a few have failed on their own... its with the drivetrain parts that are not made right and spin out of balance, causing the RMS to stretch and eventually tear, allowing all the engine oil to escape rather quickly from the engine.

[wild1poet2]

Are they on the 4th or 5th generation seal for a fix? Does anyone know if the Cayenne style seal is working well? It has been in use for awhile now. I also recall that using a GT3 Motosport seal installed in reverse was being tried in some cases with good results. Anyone else hear of this? Thanks...

[richv]

A "minor" rms leak was picked up by my mechanic during the 30k service. My o Boxster is a 2004 with 31,000 miles. I took it to the nearest dealer who replaced it with no questions asked. When showing me the invoice for work performed he stated "this will be the last time you see this" referring to the zero charges indicated for all parts and labor.

[porsche804]

the problem you guys are having is ealily fixed, a 997 rear main seal put in correctly to the correct depth, (your porsche center should know this) and a smear of high temp grease on the inside lip of the seal ( the part that meets the crankshaft) the grease stops the seal being burnt at first start up. im still waiting to see one leak after four years,

[tweetdriver]

2000, 45000 miles, bought it from private seller with after market waranty
I needed rear wheel bearing, cam cover, and water pump. All covered by
waranty. Thats a good strory!

[95_dually]

1998 Boxster purchased used with 90,000 miles. It ran good for 10,000 miles than BOOM. Catastophic engine failure. Still no RMS. LOL