Go Back   986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Performance and Technical Chat

Post Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-23-2013, 06:22 AM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BC
Posts: 1,310
Does the IMS Guardian work?

IMHO I have a ways to go until my clutch has to be done, when I'll make the decision about the Retrofit or Solution or whatever happens to be available at the time.

In the meantime, I'd like some peace of mind, i.e. insurance, and am considering the IMS Guardian.

I think it's been out for a couple of years now, and I'd like to know what sort of results people have been getting. Does it do its job?

To users:

Has it gone off? What have you found? False alarm? Has anyone had their engine saved?

__________________
2001 Boxster, 5 spd, Seal Grey
clickman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2013, 07:34 AM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,261
Yes, they do work.
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2013, 12:17 PM   #3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BC
Posts: 1,310
Thanks JFP. What I'm trying to get a handle on the results real world users are getting. Are you getting people coming in to your shop with Guardian having gone off?

I'd also like to know, assuming it's the IMS bearing that's failing, how much work will have to be done to the engine should the Guardian go off. Simple as cleaning out the pan and replacing the bearing, or is a teardown required?
__________________
2001 Boxster, 5 spd, Seal Grey
clickman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2013, 01:17 PM   #4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,261
A wide variety of problems can set off the Guardian, just about anything that generates ferrous debris in the oil. If the IMS bearing starts to fail and triggers the Guardian, the engine will have to come apart as it is most likely now full of abrasive debris, but at least it could be saved before total IMS failure reduced it to a boat anchor.
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein

Last edited by JFP in PA; 06-23-2013 at 01:48 PM.
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 01:19 AM   #5
Registered User
 
Steve Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,522
JFP....
But surely, if the IMS starts to fail and the "engine will have to come apart", the $$ cost will be nearly equal to the engine being a boat anchor to the average Joe anyway !!!

Its all very well the Guardian detecting ferrous debris, but in reality its probably too late when it does. I'm a real believer in being pre-emptive when it come to "possible" failures - the Navarro / Raby original ceramic bearing installed before failure being the better option in my (humble) opinion.
__________________
2001 Boxster S (triple black). Sleeping easier with LN Engineering/Flat 6 IMS upgrade, low temp thermostat & underspeed pulley.
2001 MV Agusta F4.
Steve Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 02:15 AM   #6
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Tinker View Post
JFP....
But surely, if the IMS starts to fail and the "engine will have to come apart", the $$ cost will be nearly equal to the engine being a boat anchor to the average Joe anyway !!!

Its all very well the Guardian detecting ferrous debris, but in reality its probably too late when it does. I'm a real believer in being pre-emptive when it come to "possible" failures - the Navarro / Raby original ceramic bearing installed before failure being the better option in my (humble) opinion.
If the engine can be saved, it is often less money as many bone yards or rebuilders (including Raby at last count) now require a "viable core" in exchange; quite often, IMS total failures are not "viable" (heads of valves broken off and pushed thru cylinder walls, etc.). If your original M96 needs to come apart but is still intact, you are probably ahead on $.

The Guardian is still one of the limited options for those with the 05-08 M97's that cannot be easily upgraded, and would catch the situation before the grit has reduced the engine to scrap metal status.
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 04:32 PM   #7
Registered User
 
Steve Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,522
Thats a fair comment JFP re core engine values - I hadn't factored that in.
__________________
2001 Boxster S (triple black). Sleeping easier with LN Engineering/Flat 6 IMS upgrade, low temp thermostat & underspeed pulley.
2001 MV Agusta F4.
Steve Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 11:29 AM   #8
Registered User
 
chipmunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Kent, United Kingdom
Posts: 84
Garage
I have recently bought a 2003 Boxter 3.2S Tip with 69k on it and have been reading about IMS failures on this forum. Where does one buy an IMS Guardian from - is it a Porsche supplied part or an after market product? Also is it fairly easy to install?
__________________
2003 Boxster S
chipmunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 11:35 AM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 598
Cimpmunk, it is not a Porsche part but a product developed by frequent contributor Jack Raby. It is available in the UK and what follows is a link to at least one supplier/installer:

Wrightune Independent Porsche Specialists - Restoration


Brad
southernstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 12:04 PM   #10
Registered User
 
chipmunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Kent, United Kingdom
Posts: 84
Garage
Many thanks Brad. I have looked at their web site and sent them an email. I'll also give them a call tomorrow. Appreciate the help.
__________________
2003 Boxster S
chipmunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 12:35 PM   #11
recycledsixtie
 
recycledsixtie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Edmonton Canada
Posts: 824
Garage
I have had the Ims Guardian installed two years now. Cost to buy was about $400 and close to $500 to install by my indy. I am not one to throw $$$ at my car at $30k miles so this is a compromise. Clutch is okay at now 41k miles and am not planning on replacing the ims until clutch replacement time if I keep the car that long.

I test the IMS guardian daily - loud squeal and red light when pushing button to test.
Does it do the job? Who knows? If it sounds I pull over immediately, shut engine off and have it flatbedded to the indy shop.

That is a good question and is well answered above. If it saves the block then it has done its job well. So far car has been great, no major problems and would install the Guardian again if the next car had an ims... although next would likely be a Cayman 2009 or newer.
recycledsixtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 12:42 PM   #12
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 20
So if the guardian goes off, what happens next? Automatic tear down? Is a false alarm possible as that'd be an expensive bit of tinkering?
Glasgow 911SC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 01:38 PM   #13
Registered User
 
chipmunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Kent, United Kingdom
Posts: 84
Garage
recycledsixtie, how often has it gone off while you've been driving?
__________________
2003 Boxster S
chipmunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 02:21 PM   #14
recycledsixtie
 
recycledsixtie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Edmonton Canada
Posts: 824
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipmunk View Post
recycledsixtie, how often has it gone off while you've been driving?
The |IMS Guardian has never gone off while I am driving. No false alarms or anything.
So it certainly gives me peace of mind. So many will question if it cost me close to a $1000 installed why not get a new IMS installed. Well I hate replacing stuff that does not need it and if I went and got the ims replaced then I would get the clutch replaced etc etc and that would be $3000 to $4000.

If I was going to keep this car for say another six years and money was no object I would certainly look at the ims and clutch replacement. I stay within my budget of $1500 to 2000 a year expenditure on it and that has worked so far for me. If you want cheap motoring the MX5 Miata is the way to go but then that is like comparing apples to oranges. I will never go back to a Miata.

I do my own oil changes and this way I can see if there is metal in the filter. So far none. If there is enough metal in the oil the IMS Guardian will do its job of detecting that metal. So far I am pleased.

Last edited by recycledsixtie; 07-30-2013 at 02:25 PM. Reason: too much info
recycledsixtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 02:53 PM   #15
Registered User
 
BYprodriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: O.C. CA
Posts: 3,709
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by recycledsixtie View Post
I have had the Ims Guardian installed two years now. Cost to buy was about $400 and close to $500 to install by my indy. I am not one to throw $$$ at my car at $30k miles so this is a compromise. Clutch is okay at now 41k miles and am not planning on replacing the ims until clutch replacement time if I keep the car that long.

I test the IMS guardian daily - loud squeal and red light when pushing button to test.
Does it do the job? Who knows? If it sounds I pull over immediately, shut engine off and have it flatbedded to the indy shop.

That is a good question and is well answered above. If it saves the block then it has done its job well. So far car has been great, no major problems and would install the Guardian again if the next car had an ims... although next would likely be a Cayman 2009 or newer.
I will add that the guardian is designed to be a DIY.
BYprodriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2013, 04:52 PM   #16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sanford NC
Posts: 2,533
There are assertions it works and I've been told in testing Raby put in a known failing bearing and drove the car till the detector detected.

Has anyone else gotten the signal and then looked at the bearing and had the failure confirmed?

Yes the theory is sound as it has been used in aircraft for decades.

But what evidence independent of the developer do we have that it works in this application?
mikefocke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2013, 06:05 PM   #17
recycledsixtie
 
recycledsixtie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Edmonton Canada
Posts: 824
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefocke View Post
There are assertions it works and I've been told in testing Raby put in a known failing bearing and drove the car till the detector detected.

Has anyone else gotten the signal and then looked at the bearing and had the failure confirmed?

Yes the theory is sound as it has been used in aircraft for decades.

But what evidence independent of the developer do we have that it works in this application?
Good questions Mike. Eventually somebody will report in to this forum that their IMS Guardian sounded the alarm and the teardown will begin providing evidence of what caused the alarm to go off. I believe that the Guardian is relatively new but it is just a question of time before somebody reports in. I would think that enough of them have been sold by now to increase the probability of an occurrence.....
recycledsixtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2013, 11:19 PM   #18
Registered User
 
chipmunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Kent, United Kingdom
Posts: 84
Garage
Well I have just ordered mine from Wrightune here in the UK. The car goes in for fitting on the 13th Aug. I'll let you know how it goes.
__________________
2003 Boxster S
chipmunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2013, 04:51 AM   #19
recycledsixtie
 
recycledsixtie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Edmonton Canada
Posts: 824
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipmunk View Post
Well I have just ordered mine from Wrightune here in the UK. The car goes in for fitting on the 13th Aug. I'll let you know how it goes.
What you can expect! The test button/light is one that goes on the dash is similar to the convert. top switch. The oil plug that incorporates the metal sensor replaces the standard oil drain plug. After mine was fitted I had a small leak coming through the sensor so I put the old plug back in and sent back the sensor and they sent me a new one. Keep an eye out for oil leaks after it has been installed. When doing an oil change look up in the instructions what you should do because the oil plug/pigtail does not accommodate a normal socket for tightening it up. If you don't do the oil change yourself then let your indy/Porsche shop know you have the Guardian installed. There are instructions in the Guardian manual about manually(with a regular wrench - don't overtighten) doing it as opposed to a special torque wrench attachment. I feel that you will have a sense of relief after having had it installed. To me it is well worth it. I am not a poster boy for the Guardian but for me it does spell relief! Let us know what you think after you have driven it a couple of weeks with it installed. I have no regrets at having the my indy shop do the work. They are not cheap but what they do they do well.
Cheers G
recycledsixtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 08:26 AM   #20
Registered User
 
hossuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Malta & Uk
Posts: 37
Garage
Last March I bought a 2001 S that had 41k miles on it. The clutch was replaced at 32k so there was no way i was going for a clutch/Ims replacement.

Having read in a few places that the IMS was more likely to fail at lower mileages I was plenty paranoid so I sourced an IMS Guardian from Wrighttune for £250.00.

Fitted it myself when I did Oil change a couple of months ago which was pretty straight-forward (and I'm no mechanic though I usually do the routine maintenance stuff).

Like a couple of other people I also found that the oil plug was leaking after fitting. I think my kit was old stock as I didn't get the socket with the cut out they now supply so couldn't torque it up properly. As per instructions I didn't tighten it up too much, so when I found I had the leak I got under and added another 1/4 turn on and that seems to have sorted it.

I initially installed the unit with the audible indicator at the bottom of the center console but found travelling at any speed or with any music playing it could not be heard. Also I had to install the switch with the visual indicator on the drivers side of the dash and found it was totally obscured by my hands and the steering wheel when it's in its's most comfortable position for me. So just yesterday I moved the audible unit into the service-book wallet holder which is much louder, (but still not loud enough really). I also fitted a cheap strip of LED's that I got off fleabay under the speedo/revcounter and wired them in using the auxillary connections on the sender unit. This is far more successful and there is definitely no chance I'll miss it if goes off. (touch wood that it never does).



Must admit that ever since I fitted it I have felt less anxious about the engine letting loose and being left with a beautiful static piece of sculpture. I know this is purely psychological but it's true never-the-less and for that reason alone I would recommend fitting one.

PS.
For all those thinking of purchasing a Boxster .... Do it!........ but don't read anything on-line about IMS failures you will sleep more soundly.

__________________
__________________________
2001 Boxster S in Lapis Blue

Last edited by hossuk; 08-20-2013 at 06:51 AM.
hossuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Post Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page