Lessons learned: Buying a "used low mileage engine"(must read)

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by jmatta

Very interesting read...sends chills down my spine.

The seller knows who he is...what goes around, comes around.

Yep.. And he has read this post and responded to me via email. He isn't happy- I don't care.

He threatened libel if I disclosed his identity... Imagine that.

[PlayersExpress]

Obviously if he saw this thread then he is surely a member of this forum. I for one do not stand to associate with people like that.

It is my opinion that someone like that should be banned from this forum, and if it were legal I would tar and feather him and ruin his "good reputation" with the truth.

[pcs5978]

The story of this Motor - "Motor C" as Jake and I refer to it, continues to unfold. When the final Chapter comes to a close I'll post my version events - along with names, dates, data, and dollars.

The "Purchaser".

[Brucelee]

"Under the doctrine of caveat emptor, the buyer could not recover from the seller for defects on the property that rendered the property unfit for ordinary purposes. The only exception was if the seller actively concealed latent defects."


Then again, you have to prove the concealment.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a used engine, certainly, not from anyone on ebay.

Hope this turns out well and thanks for the story. Good one.

[Jake Raby]

Bruce,
It isn't going to turn out "Better". The damage has already been done, the seller has gotten his money and according to his pictures on facebook he has been partying his ass off at some local clubs-probably with the purchasers funds.

The purchaser is now going to miss another event due to this BS, which entirely defeats the purpose behind buying engine "C" now and finishing the season. The purchaser has also faced more financial responsibility related to this with his local Indy shop.

Yesterday I received the cylinder heads and worked until 2330 last night to get those heads inspected and turned around ASAP in hopes that we could get the purchaser back on the track for his next event.

Unfortunately when the "Phantom mechanic" only torqued the cylinder heads to 10 foot pounds, totally disregarding the proper cylinder head torquing procedures the cylinder heads suffered more than just some blown head gaskets and intermix- Now the cylinder head sealing surface is no longer true enough to successfully have new gaskets applied without them blowing almost immediately, repeating this issue.

The CBM machine needed for this is tied up until Monday, so we can't turn them around until after this time. That means the event will be missed.

Now is where it gets even crappier:
These cylinder heads were recently machined when they were pulled and replaced by the "Phantom".. That means that according to how much material needs to be removed to get the head sealing surface straight again could determine the structural integrity of the head casting. These heads don't have many "Lives" in them when it comes to resurfacing without compromising strength. The other issue lies in the fact that the combustion chambers of the 3.2 heads are very small and due to their shape any amount of resurfacing results in boosted compression ratios, which is great in some ways, but in others it means the heads are weakened and won't last very long, especially under track conditions.

Having seen these heads and the fact they had been resurfaced now explains why the engine made more power than it was expected to and maintains the title of the strongest 3.2 we've ever seen in stock form.. It was due to the boosted compression ratio that was the byproduct of the cylinder head resurfacing. Now why were the heads resurfaced?

Now the real question that we are trying to answer is what made the "Phantom" pull the cylinder heads from this engine in the first place?? Was there a cracked head, blown head gaskets? Did the engine get way too hot? I have to look at these heads very closely and understand why they were pulled and what has been done to them so we don't end up right back where we are now, after even more money has been spent, and more events missed..

...and of course I'll have to do all this work for free, because the purchaser should not be responsible for paying for even more BS.

I am a very objective person and generally I don't trust anyone until they have proven themselves to me. This reservation keeps me from ending up getting the shaft in most situations. When the "purchaser" first enquired about this engine he forwarded me the emails from the seller for my review. I immediately noticed the seller's name and knew that he had been in contact with me in the past concerning these engines (generally looking for free advice because he was as lost as every other soul working on an M96 engine) as he worked on his 3.6 and tried to reassemble it.

I told the purchaser that I had communication with the seller and that made the purchaser and myself feel better about buying an engine across state lines, off of Ebay.. At least we knew the person and knew they were real.

And guess what, he still screwed us.

If we had known this engine had been purchased from a dismantler, or that a dismantler had EVER TOUCHED IT, we would have NEVER purchased it- period.

The seller will maintain that he offered a refund for the engine and he did- BUT this was only done after the purchaser had spent MORE MONEY on the engine's install and repair than the price of the original engine. The seller was smart and avoided our emails directly on the topic of reimbursal until he was positive that the purchaser would not return the engine for his "refund". At the point the seller offered the refund it was CHEAPER to repair what we had.

There is at least one person on this forum who will take advantage of you, let that fact be known. He is a really nice guy, until he gets your money and you have a problem.

People don't take advantage of me or my friends/ clients. He screwed the wrong two guys.

[Jake Raby]

It continues to unfold:

Further "warm" pressure testing of the cylinder heads this morning showed a crack in one of the cylinder head castings.. Whether or not this crack can be repaired with our casting repair processes is still not clear.

At temperature the crack revelead fluid loss at as little as 5 PSI pressure..

Its now clear that this was the root of the issue that took this engine off the road and put it into the hands of the "Phantom"... Since this person didn't know any better and since the symptoms appeared to be just like a head gasket failure the "Phantom" had the heads resurfaced then simply threw on some new head gaskets. He then barely torqued the heads back in place and screwed up the cam timing.

Then sold it.

Needless to say, we are more furious than can be imagined.

[BoxsterLewis]

This kind of happened to me when I bought a 3.6L from New York as they said the Carrera only dinged up the oil pan and the insurance bought the guy a brand new engine. Installed my 3.6L and the cam timing was all off, luckily the car has been driving fine for about 2,000 miles now other than a blown water pump. The shop that did my work has been racing Porsche's for 30 years and knew what they were doing like you (Autometrics in Charleston). Good post Jake.

[JTP]

Originally Posted by PlayersExpress

if it were legal I would tar and feather him