anyone intalled NHP full exhaust???

[2K3_Boxster_S]

Has anyone done this install???

Will be installing the following NHP full exhaust. slightly different from pics. I will be running: Headers with Sport Cats, ByPass Mid pipes, and the Muffler.




I am considering GIAC chip tuned for this setup?? anybody? agree, disagree?

thanks

[Topless]

I have not but others here have done similar installs. If it were my car I would get a custom reflash with a dyno or a rolling tune and shoot for a big fat torque curve rather than peak hp. We buy hp but we win races with torque. More effective than off the shelf "chip" reflashes.

Some pitfalls others have faced with aftermarket header/cat/exhaust so just a friendly heads up:

Serious droning resonance at 3k rpm
Continuous CEL issues.
Cannot pass state smog inspections (not street legal)
Headers made contact with nearby PS lines, car caught fire and burned to the ground (yes, several Boxsters have gone car-b-que after installing headers)

Pay attention to the details.

[Dragonwind]

Yes you must tie back the power steering lines or else you will have issues. I lucked out and it happened in a driveway when someone who had a hose happened to be standing right there when the fire started. No damage other than a messy engine from the fluid and a burst PS hose.
Chris

[ekam]

He's not going to have CEL since there's 4 cats shown in the pic. As long as the O2 sensors are plugged in then it'll be fine.

[2K3_Boxster_S]

Originally Posted by ekam

He's not going to have CEL since there's 4 cats shown in the pic. As long as the O2 sensors are plugged in then it'll be fine.

yes I will be running the front and rear O2's, although the front CAT's will be 200 cell cats (much less restrictive) than a factory 600 to 800 cell CAT. and that can but rarely cause a CEL.

not to worried about the CEL even if it does it will be fixed when the car is tuned.

[Jake Raby]

No, I am not a salesman and don't even have one on my payroll.

When the time is right I'll release some information, but it must be done in the right manner with all the right support and back up in place to handle the stir it will cause.

I have emailed or sent letters to 4 of the primary exhaust manufacturers about their products and I am gioving them every opportunity to contact me prior to any information being released.

I am also working during this time to gather data from the engine that isn't just related to power, but is more specific to efficiency like BSFC and MPG along with exhaust gas temps and AFR.

In today's environment it is very important that any claim related to what we evaluate be specific and without doubt. I have learned my lesson about divulging information and even helping people that are in certain situations in the past. I have a folder full of letters from Porsche and I am sure that the exhaust manufacturers that spend thousands of dollars on the big shiny ads would hate for the word to get out about what they are offering and how it can effect the engine in ways that are immeasurable on a dyno..

I hate to piss you guys off by not sharing everything, but this information is expensive to gather and there is absolutely nothing in the world more disgusting than busting your ass for days to get data only to have the results challenged by someone that doesn't even own a tool box.... Been there, done that and thats why our development is now done to support our engine program and product line.

What we have learned ends up as part of our total package.. If at some point I feel that I have the required support and data to share this publicly then I will do so on my site.

As far as oils go: Some of the oils I have found to work best are not included in the Porsche directives. Therefore I only apply these when I build an updated engine with my name on it. If a car comes to me for a service it still gets a Porsche recommended oil as I refuse to have a finger pointed at me.

I am working very hard to learn, understand and apply technology to these engines and because of this our results vary greatly and honestly can change weekly or monthly. I will say that our more powerful engines do respond to aftermarket exhausts in some cases much better than stock engines. It'll take another year+ at minimum to get the data I need for an article.

In short people don't like to be told that something is bad, especially after they spent thousands of dollars on it and instead of getting pissed at the person who took their money, they want to shoot the messenger..

As my Dad always says "Even a Fish would stay out of trouble if he kept his mouth shut".

Sorry for getting you guys revved up.

[2K3_Boxster_S]

Originally Posted by Dragonwind

Yes you must tie back the power steering lines or else you will have issues. I lucked out and it happened in a driveway when someone who had a hose happened to be standing right there when the fire started. No damage other than a messy engine from the fluid and a burst PS hose.
Chris

Very much thanks for that information, I will definetely make sure the PS hoses are out the the way . That would not be good. Also was this on 3.2 or 2.5 or are the hoses identical on a both???????

[2K3_Boxster_S]

Originally Posted by Topless

I have not but others here have done similar installs. If it were my car I would get a custom reflash with a dyno or a rolling tune and shoot for a big fat torque curve rather than peak hp. We buy hp but we win races with torque. More effective than off the shelf "chip" reflashes.

Some pitfalls others have faced with aftermarket header/cat/exhaust so just a friendly heads up:

Serious droning resonance at 3k rpm
Continuous CEL issues.
Cannot pass state smog inspections (not street legal)
Headers made contact with nearby PS lines, car caught fire and burned to the ground (yes, several Boxsters have gone car-b-que after installing headers)

Pay attention to the details.

Thanks I will see If I can get that torque curve up. It definetely feels like it needs more torque especially at lower rpms.

Also, it is a street legal setup where I live. there are no smog inspections and I am still run CATS.

Thanks everyone for the help.

[Lil bastard]

Personally, I wouldn't sink any money into an exhaust until we get more info from Jake Raby.

Jake has intimated that only a couple of the aftermarket setups actually outperform the OEM gear and that most actually underperform OEM.

[2K3_Boxster_S]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

Personally, I wouldn't sink any money into an exhaust until we get more info from Jake Raby.

Jake has intimated that only a couple of the aftermarket setups actually outperform the OEM gear and that most actually underperform OEM.

I understand what you are saying. after market support for the boxster's is fairly new. NHP is providing dyno sheets with each part. And the OEM exhaust seems very restrictive 1 1/2 inch exhaust inlets?????? I just can't imagine how going to a equal length merge header and from 42mm to 50mm overall piping, removing 4 restrictive CATS is not going to out perform OEM. I can't believe that's possible.
wish I could do a pre and post dyno on this install but I'm afraid I will only be able to do a post dyno. Let you know in a few weeks when I return home. Also the muffler is straight through no baffles.

[Jake Raby]

Stephen,
I understand.

The IMS issue is most certainly the biggest issue that we must quantify before any public statements or made. I have already been asked to be an expert witness on more than one occasion in ragrd to the IMS failure.

I believe in solving the problem with a wrench, not a Gavel.

[2K3_Boxster_S]

I will put an end to this. This is going to completely set back my plans. I will do a Pre and Post Dyno on this install. and if I have a negative gain in Hp and Torque then I will shut my mouth and offer a personal apology to Mr. Raby.

end of story.

this will take some time I am currently on travel for govt.

exhaust has been delivered.

shooting mid july pre dyno.

[Jake Raby]

I continue to gather data... But it's not looking like I'll end up sharing the info publicly.

I'd most certainly end up in court if I did so, the results are that bad in some instances.

[udontknowjack]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

I continue to gather data... But it's not looking like I'll end up sharing the info publicly.

I'd most certainly end up in court if I did so, the results are that bad in some instances.

so in other word spending any money of aftermarket exhaust is not worth it ?

[cnavarro]

I have the full system on my 2.9L. Looks nice, sounds good. Made a difference on my 2.9 over a stock system, but my engine is far from stock. My biggest complaint is that the tube diameter is wrong for using the factory U pieces that you have to use in the install, so it's pretty much impossible to not have exhaust leaks.

[2K3_Boxster_S]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

I have the full system on my 2.9L. Looks nice, sounds good. Made a difference on my 2.9 over a stock system, but my engine is far from stock. My biggest complaint is that the tube diameter is wrong for using the factory U pieces that you have to use in the install, so it's pretty much impossible to not have exhaust leaks.

so you have NHP Full exhaust installed on your 2.9L and you are saying that it does not bolt up perfectly? If so then, my whole set will be getting returned.

Also specify exact set-up if you have NHP.

example: Headers with sport cats, mid pipes with or without cats, and exhaust.

[Jake Raby]

Thats all I care to find out does it or does it not improve HP and Torque.

OK, so what if the improvements that it does make really do not translate into any added performance for the car? What we see on the dyno doesn't always show up on a stop watch in the real world, especially when a change only helps the peak numbers.

as far as the AFR the stock ECU will not be touched or chipped in anyway.

It doesn't have to be.. The engine has been running with the stock system for a long period of time and it has adapted to the stock system's characteristics. Initially, when the new system is installed the ECU will not have adapted to the exhaust system change and that usually means the engine runs a tad bit lean. Believe it or not we have learned that "Lean is mean" and the dyno numbers will actually be a bit better with the new system because of the AFR the engine sees on initial start up and evaluation than it will be in just a day of so after the ECU has adapted to the changes. This is what complicates the gathering of scientific data with these vehicles, but it is a reality.

I will try and keep the variables as close as possible. Same dyno, straps, engine temps, IAT's, etc.

Thats good, but unless the adaptive is allowed to do it's job you are not actually doing a before and after "one factor at a time" test.

No i'm not going to monitor the AFR.

Then you'll never be able to know if the system actualy made power or if the changes that it made to the ECU made the changes that you see on the plots.

This is a simple bolt on test.

That doesn't exist.. If you are going to spend the time and money to do an evaluation I'd think you'd want the most information possible.

All I do all day, every day is develop and test engines, sometimes operating 3 different engines in my different labs one after another doing various things. The reason why some of the false claims I have seen have been made is because the developers of the systems are not removing the variables and are not testing only one factor at a time.

You need to realize there is more to this than just bolting on parts and rolling the car on the dyno.. When we change systems with aftermarket programmable EFI we have to alter the fuel map to satidfy the needs of the system enhancement, your ECU has to do the same thing.

Heck even working with a Carbureted engine requires the same changes, many times I have tested exhausts and had to alter jetting and timing advance to compensate for the sub-system changes.

See if the dyno operator will allow you to come back in a week or so after the initial test and run another after the adaptive has done it's job. Also see if they will allow you to log AFR as it should be easy enough for them to do. I log AFR on any car that I evaluate.

[2K3_Boxster_S]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

I continue to gather data... But it's not looking like I'll end up sharing the info publicly.

I'd most certainly end up in court if I did so, the results are that bad in some instances.

Court??? what?? ever heard of the 1st? if you want to claim upgrading headers and exhaust is worthless and can't post data that you have then your opinions and claims are worthless.

If you have installed NHP headers and dyno'd a 3.2L then post the results:

EX: Maxspeed Dyno Sheet suggest's 8hp 4LBS change


Exhaust and headers on any other car would yeild gains in HP and or torque, just curious why it would be the opposite for a Boxster?

[Lil bastard]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

I continue to gather data... But it's not looking like I'll end up sharing the info publicly.

I'd most certainly end up in court if I did so, the results are that bad in some instances.

Well you could avoid any litigation possibility by merely reporting those systems with positive gains.

You certainly could not be sued by a company for not mentionining them at all or for not saying anything negative about their products.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

Well you could avoid any litigation possibility by merely reporting those systems with positive gains.

You certainly could not be sued by a company for not mentionining them at all or for not saying anything negative about their products.

I think everyone is missing an important point: Jake and Charles are owners of two businesses that specialize in providing upgrades and replacement components for Porsches. As such, they could potentially be held to a different standard in a lawsuit as “the market” considers them “subject matter experts.” Therefore, their “opinions” carry a lot more weight than that of an average enthusiast that publishes their like or dislike for a particular component, regardless of how the data was collected. As a business owner myself; I can fully appreciate their reluctance to state their knowledge on some subjects as the facts as they understand them can still end up costing a whole lot of cash to defend when you piss someone off…………….