Double-declutching - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Jeannot · 06-18-2004, 11:00 AM

How many of you are doing this on a regular basis to preserve the clutch and make the downshifts even more rewarding?

markk · 06-19-2004, 11:03 AM

Like in the old days without synchronised gears ?

In that the procedure would be:

clutch in
pull gear from engaged to neutral
release clutch
clutch in
put in desired gear
match revs with pedal
release clutch

I NEVER do that. Useless in modern syncrhonised gearboxes. What I do do, all the time is properly match revs when shifting (up & down). Just a little throttle before releasing the clutch does the job.

Currently practising heel-and-toe. Which is rev matching during downshift and heavy braking at the same time. Works great in the BoxsterS and my (e30) m3 which floor mounted throttle. Can't seem to master it in "normal cars" with a hanging throttle.

Mark.

Jeannot · 06-19-2004, 11:12 AM

Apparently it's not so useless because there is less spin on the clutch when downshifting since the engine already as the RPM of the lower gear...
your thoughts? I do it all the time...was just checking...heel and toe seems impossible even on the boxster. how do you manage?

markk · 06-20-2004, 09:23 AM

Rev matching when downshifting is something very usefull to prevent spin on clutch and a fenomena called "shift lock" on the track. Especially with rear wheel drive cars like BoxsterS.

As explained in my earlier post I do it all the time. However "rev matching before releasing the clutch" is something else (at least to my knowledge) then double-declutching. Reread my previous post closely...

Heel-and-too is easy in Boxster. I got large wide feet. Break with the left side / ball of my foot and turn my foot counter-clock-wise so that the right down side of my foot hits the gaspedal near its attachment on the floor.

Furthermore I found it helpfull to put my seat a bit more backwards then I usually do. Turning you foot counter-clock-wise is easier that way.

Mark.

Jeannot · 06-20-2004, 09:42 AM

Yes, sorry, I realized just after I posted. I get the double-declutching is not necessary for syncrhonization fo gears, but the throttle is still useful. Thanks for the explanations.

LilleyT · 06-21-2004, 12:27 AM

Heel-and-toe is fairly straightforward, I have a 2001 2.7 Boxster, no need for big feet or bigger pedals, just lots of practice.

When practising, I reccomend you do it in a traffic free area as there is a tendancy to under brake and suddenly realise you are going way to fast for the corner / roundabout and then you have to decide 'not this time' and resort to 'normal' braking.

Great fun once you get the hang of it, just take your time.

Jeannot · 06-21-2004, 08:51 AM

Just by curiosity, how did you learn? not on your boxster/open road or did you ? :-)

LilleyT · 06-22-2004, 02:29 AM

Jeannot,

Prior to the Boxster I owned a Toyota MR2 Roadster for a couple of years (great cars by the way), and I learn't the technique (heal-and-toe) in that on the public highway. If you search the web i'm sure you will find 101 articles on the technique.

I've had my Boxster (2001 2.7) for only a couple of months and am still in the process of re-learning it for a different car. The process is the same it's just how much you need to 'blip' the accellator in order to get the right level of revs before releasing the clutch.

Once you do start to get it right it'll make you grin to the point of ear swallowing.

Jeannot · 06-22-2004, 10:44 AM

I get the amount of blip right, that's not an issue...it's the b***y heel and toe which i don't seem to have the ankles for :-(
BTW, you seem to be a roadster fan, howcome a British citizen goes for Japenese, then German, when the national production includes items of joy such as the Elise? :-)

LilleyT · 06-23-2004, 11:33 AM

Jeannot,

hmmm now there lies a story, or two. I have owned Toyota MR2s for around 11 years slowly progressing through the various models, MKI, MKII (both pre / post '94) and the roadster, I have even retained membership of the UK MR2 Drivers Club. Early this year I realised, after two years, that the roadster wasn't really doing it for me (another story) so a change was in order...

The list was drawn up ... Honda S2000, Merc SLK, Boxster and my boyhood fantasy (lets not go there too deeply) a Lotus Esprit! Unfortunately I'm the type of guy who's head rules his heart and I started by phoning each dealer on the list to find out servicing costs even before looking at possible cars! very sensible, my mum would be proud!

Unfortunately the Esprit which I would dearly of loved, would have also cost me dearly. Services costing £550($960), £900($1575) and £1400($2450) and coming round every 6k miles! eeek. Lotus is based literally 15 miles from where I live, I have even been round the factory a couple of times through the MR2 club, you get to see it all, and it's all very scary ...watching as they glue the cars together ... no kidding!

Cut along story short I tested the list and settled for a Boxster, I am as happy as a pig in **************** to a degree that I can only remember in the days of my MKI MR2. The car (2001 2.7 AS) is superb and well worth the £25k, I have no reason to doubt that German engineering isn't up to Japanese, but certainly neither are worse than British! LOTUS ... Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious!

Way off topic and long-winded ... me all over!

Jeannot · 06-23-2004, 01:07 PM

I am fan of German engineering, amd fond of my boxster too. Very interesting. A british friend of mine who now lives here in Swizterland (he has a 993 cabrio)...and he keeps telling about his dream of Lotus, but every time he went for the F1 GP of Great Britain, he said all the Lotus drivers were on the side of the road to the circuit, because of mechanical problems. Not very reliable :-)
Another interesting thing is the boy's dream...mine was a Porsche 944 turbo :-) Now i think i'm better off with what I have...so much for dream !

F1CAR4ME · 06-24-2004, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LilleyT
my boyhood fantasy (lets not go there too deeply) a Lotus Esprit!

Mine too... Interesting tidbit about Lotus F1, though they were doing just fine when they had Honda engines and Ayrton Senna in the cockpit. After that it was underpowered customer motors and the horrid Lamborghini for a season. Then they bought the farm

Unfortunate really, another piece of F1 history down the tubes.

Jeannot · 06-24-2004, 10:53 AM

The black one with the JPS ad on it? THEY looked cool !
BTW- I also remember the Esprit from "For your eyes only", a James Bond with Roger Moore :-) They blew the thing in the movie!

F1CAR4ME · 06-24-2004, 12:49 PM

That's a little before my time, although those black JPS cars were the glory days of Lotus in F1. The car I'm thinking of was in Yellow Camel livery. They also had Nelson Piquet driving for the for a time if I recall correctly. Back in those days they had to pre-qualify because there were so many cars, not all of them could start, and Minardi was a mid-pack team that looked like it had the potential to become a front-runner some day!