Chipped cars ONLY! - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

der Geist · 04-04-2007, 02:55 PM

I think we all know that there are a lot of people who think that after market chips do nothing for a cars performance. This thread is not for them. I am interested to know what chips people are using, if they are satisfied with them, if they feel that they are worth it and also if they have also done the intake/exhaust mod with it. I am considering a Revo chip with the SPS 2 option as it will let me switch between 91 and 93 octane fuel. I would love to hear others opinions especially if you have had experience with GIAC or REVO.

04-04-2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by der Geist

I think we all know that there are a lot of people who think that after market chips do nothing for a cars performance. This thread is not for them. I am interested to know what chips people are using, if they are satisfied with them, if they feel that they are worth it and also if they have also done the intake/exhaust mod with it. I am considering a Revo chip with the SPS 2 option as it will let me switch between 91 and 93 octane fuel. I would love to hear others opinions especially if you have had experience with GIAC or REVO.

Hi der Geist, I don't want to hijack this thread or take it Off Topic, so I'll delet this if you want just, send me a PM. But I have a question. Is there really a big difference between 91 and 93 octane (2.2%)? Thanks.

der Geist · 04-04-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmussatti

Hi der Geist, I don't want to hijack this thread or take it Off Topic, so I'll delet this if you want just, send me a PM. But I have a question. Is there really a big difference between 91 and 93 octane (2.2%)? Thanks.

Not all all, I think that is what a discussion board is all about. Like most mods in everyday driving you are right-there is really not a whole lot of difference. I doubt if most people would even notice it. My past cars have always seemed to run just a bit better and cleaner on 93 and the Boxster in particular seems to run smoother. Like all mods though I think it will only make a difference under extreme circumstances such as REALLY spirited driving or track/autocrosses. You mentioned 2.2%. My last boss (and mentor) once asked me if I knew the difference between a race horse that won a million dollars a year and one that only won one hundred thousand dollars a year. I thought about it for a second and admitted I did not know. He told me the difference was 1%. I asked how that could be and he replied "because that's all it need to be-just a nose, 1%. So while I know I won't be blowing away any 987 S's, chasing Carreras down the back straights and I will watch Corvettes tail lights pulling away from me at a speed which I could never match I believe that all these 1 & 2 percents add up and can result in a much better driving experience. Not only that but if I come across an unsuspecting 986 I can smoke him!

Just my .02 or was that .08?? Sorry for the long reply!!

I think there may be someone else out there who may have a better understanding of the differences and might explain it more clearly. Anyone???

der Geist · 05-26-2007, 08:10 PM

Here is the dyno run for an '03 base Boxster after exhaust, intake and Revo chip. This is at the rear wheels so HP at the flywheel should be substantially more. All I know is that the butt dyno says "HELL YEAH!!" I didn't get a base dyno from bone stock so if anyone out there ha one for an '03 2.7 I would appreciate you posting it so we can all see the difference and see how HP to $$$ these mods really are.

chaudanova · 05-26-2007, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by der Geist

Here is the dyno run for an '03 base Boxster after exhaust, intake and Revo chip. This is at the rear wheels so HP at the flywheel should be substantially more. All I know is that the butt dyno says "HELL YEAH!!" I didn't get a base dyno from bone stock so if anyone out there ha one for an '03 2.7 I would appreciate you posting it so we can all see the difference and see how HP to $$$ these mods really are.

Hey der Geist, I don't have a '03 2.7, but mine is a '02 2.7, which should be a little less powerful than the '03 based on Porsche's factory ratings for the change in that year.

Here is my baseline dyno. My only mod included is a "desnorkling".

2000SoCalBoxsterS · 05-27-2007, 05:37 AM

For what it's worth my local Porsche tuner race shop will do a free 5 hour REVO flash to see if you like it before paying for it. I'm sure any REVO dealer will do this. I guess REVO is so confident about their product that they allow for this free trial. But I've also heard that GIAC ? Makes a better performance chip. I haven't researched them yet so I can't say which is better.

steve00s · 05-30-2007, 03:15 PM

I'm getting the GIAC tuning tomorrow. Since I cannot dyno the results I was trying to think of some other subjective way to measure it. Maybe a few baseline timed dashes today and comparing that with some times tomorrow. Any ideas on the best way to minimize driver factor, i.e., rolling start timed 1/8th mile or time from 60mph to 80mph on the freeway?

der Geist · 05-30-2007, 03:45 PM

I think the only way to tell the difference (if any) would be with a dyno run. I don't think that chipping the car has really added much horsepower but it certainly has added to the drivability of the car. I have the throttle response up to "9" now and I can adjust the air flow and most importantly the timing. The torque line is much flatter now. I think you will enjoy it. Please post your impressions after it's done no matter what. I was really tempted to go with GIAC too but in the end the little programming box got me. I think GIAC may be offering that as well. You may want to check into it. Good luck with the reproramming!

steve00s · 06-01-2007, 07:57 AM

Well I had the GIAC programming done yesterday. It was $795 + $80 labor + tax totaled $950. I was told that there is a certain amount of "adaptive learning" that takes place for a few days as the ECU adjusts. Was told to drive it hard for a few days before drawing any conclusions. Initially, I did not feel much difference certainly not like I have experienced with chips in other vehicles that have been very noticeable. This morning it did feel a bit stronger. About the difference between having a passenger (200 pounds) in the car versus solo. The temperature was also cooler this morning so that could have contributed. I'll continue to "teach" it for a few days before making up my mind whether it was worth the money. Either way, I had to try chipping it to satisfy my own curiousity.

Brucelee · 06-01-2007, 08:12 AM

Interesting thread. Thanks for keeping us in the loop.

2000SoCalBoxsterS · 06-01-2007, 08:45 AM

If these computer chips need an adaptive learning period before they can be judged, how come the REVO dealers offer a 5 hour free trial before you have to pay the $900? How is the GIAC different from REVO?

jordan986 · 06-01-2007, 10:08 AM

I did not hear of the whole ecu adjusting to the changes thing but I purchased the Giac chip. Performance I would say are minimal... that being said previous to getting the chip I had done a few 3rd gear pulls against my friends 02 330i starting at about 110kms to redline without the chip i was managing to pull maybe a half car length on him by the end of third, with the chip installed i was able to get a little (and I mean little maybe a bumper) over a car lenght (that was right to the end of third) which is pretty good in my opinion. Would I buy it again if I had the option -yes, will you notice a difference maybe a little. I also have a evo intake and boxster s exhaust... exhaust made very little difference in my opinion but the evo intake is great perhaps its just the sound that makes it feel faster but hey I love it!

steve00s · 06-01-2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2000SoCalBoxsterS

If these computer chips need an adaptive learning period before they can be judged, how come the REVO dealers offer a 5 hour free trial before you have to pay the $900? How is the GIAC different from REVO?

Thats a good point. I will ask and see what they say. On my Dodge Ram w/hemi the ECU will adapt back to negate effects of cold air intake and free flow exhaust without software management changes. My thought is that ECU modifications set operating parameters and hold them so the adaptive learning concept would be minimized not relied upon for performance gains. Just a theory. I'll let you know what the installers say.

der Geist · 06-01-2007, 07:18 PM

There is an in depth article in the June issue of 911 & Porsche World Magazine from the UK. You can get it at most Borders stores. It fetures and interview with REVO and their products and techniques. As you can see by my dyno sheets there is not a lot of HP to gained by getting your car chipped. At least not if it is naturally aspirated. The big gains are for the turbos where they can adjust the boost. If you look at my dyno though you will see that the tourque curve is very flat and I think the car runs much more aggressively especially in the lower gears. I did a DE at Mid Ohio 3 weeks ago and the car seemed to run a lot better than at my first DE. Could be a placebo effect though. With the REVO Select I can change the settings myself on a laptop and upload them. At my DE tomorrow I am leaving the trottle at 9 and bumping the timing to up to 5 (or 6) and the air/fuel to 9 since I will be running 94 octane. We'll see how she does.

Steve: You should call your GIAC dealer and ask what he set the parameters to. When mine left the REVO dealer they set it for optimized 91 octane which is almost the same as how it is configured from the factory. ???? I didn't really notice much of a difference either at first. I always run at least 93 octane and I noticed a difference after I got it home and reprogrammed it myself. If you always run 93 octane you should tell them that th

chaudanova: Thanks for posting that dyno. It's nice to have something similar to base it against. Was yours a 3rd gear run like mine? I'm curious because mine is so much flatter when compared to yours.

chaudanova · 06-01-2007, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by der Geist

There is an in depth article in the June issue of 911 & Porsche World Magazine from the UK. You can get it at most Borders stores. It fetures and interview with REVO and their products and techniques. As you can see by my dyno sheets there is not a lot of HP to gained by getting your car chipped. At least not if it is naturally aspirated. The big gains are for the turbos where they can adjust the boost. If you look at my dyno though you will see that the tourque curve is very flat and I think the car runs much more aggressively especially in the lower gears. I did a DE at Mid Ohio 3 weeks ago and the car seemed to run a lot better than at my first DE. Could be a placebo effect though. With the REVO Select I can change the settings myself on a laptop and upload them. At my DE tomorrow I am leaving the trottle at 9 and bumping the timing to up to 5 (or 6) and the air/fuel to 9 since I will be running 94 octane. We'll see how she does.

Steve: You should call your GIAC dealer and ask what he set the parameters to. When mine left the REVO dealer they set it for optimized 91 octane which is almost the same as how it is configured from the factory. ???? I didn't really notice much of a difference either at first. I always run at least 93 octane and I noticed a difference after I got it home and reprogrammed it myself. If you always run 93 octane you should tell them that th

chaudanova: Thanks for posting that dyno. It's nice to have something similar to base it against. Was yours a 3rd gear run like mine? I'm curious because mine is so much flatter when compared to yours.

Hey Der Geist, sure thing, yes, mine was a 3rd gear run. Yeah, I've wondered about my torque curve as well. I think my hp did fairly well for a pretty much stock 2.7, though my tq curve seemed a bit fluctuating. Any ideas/thoughts on why this would be?

der Geist · 06-01-2007, 08:26 PM

Hey Der Geist, sure thing, yes, mine was a 3rd gear run. Yeah, I've wondered about my torque curve as well. I think my hp did fairly well for a pretty much stock 2.7, though my tq curve seemed a bit fluctuating. Any ideas/thoughts on why this would be?

I have no idea why they are so different. I found Randall's dyno after Che's headers & exhaust here: http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7248&page=3&pp=20 but his is a 2.5 so it's bound to be much different anyway. I think that we need a more experienced opinion here to answer that one for you. How bout it? I there anyone else who could post a comparison dyno or can tell us why that's fluctuating to that degree?

steve00s · 06-04-2007, 09:29 AM

Well, I asked about the "adaptive learning" and was told that I should feel the difference right away. I think what they originally meant was to try it for a couple of days before making up my mind. They also said that in their test drive before the installation there was a flat spot on the high end they experienced just before shifting from first to second and that flat spot was gone on their post-installation test drive. I had not noticed nor do I now think that I would have spent $950 for this product. I didn't expect much going into this so I'm not disappointed. This has been the least tangible modification that I have done so far. Everything else has provided some noticeable benefit but as much I would like to believe I'm not feeling it here. Porsche did a good job to begin with.

Topless · 06-04-2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by der Geist

Hey Der Geist, sure thing, yes, mine was a 3rd gear run. Yeah, I've wondered about my torque curve as well. I think my hp did fairly well for a pretty much stock 2.7, though my tq curve seemed a bit fluctuating. Any ideas/thoughts on why this would be?

I have no idea why they are so different. I found Randall's dyno after Che's headers & exhaust here: http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7248&page=3&pp=20 but his is a 2.5 so it's bound to be much different anyway. I think that we need a more experienced opinion here to answer that one for you. How bout it? I there anyone else who could post a comparison dyno or can tell us why that's fluctuating to that degree?

Look at the range setting for different dyno charts. Yours is set to 0-225, Bisimoto's dyno is set 135-176. Bisi's is giving you a much more (5x) detailed look at the performance curve and is much more useful for performance tuning. Both charts give useful peak performance points.

The 2.7 motor max torque rpm has moved up from about 4.7k(stock) to 4.9K (chipped). It also looks like a narrowing of the torque curve(powerband). That narrowing of the powerband is where you get that extra "kick" feeling along with slightly higher max HP and torque. I'd say there is still some tuning work to do to get that nice big fat torque curve.

Below is the dyno chart Bisi did for his own 3.2 motor. The range setting is similar and it was the same dyno so you can compare apples to apples. It shows a fatter torque curve with higher max performance due to the larger 3.2 motor.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/bisimoto/DeSnorked986S.jpg