Poll: Will Gas Hit $5/Gal by 4th of July?

[RandallNeighbour]

Originally Posted by thstone

Hmmm. How do you explain Exxon/Mobil (and the rest of the oil industry's) record profits during the Bush years?

How do you explain their astronomical NEW record breaking profits during the Obama years?

[Allen K. Littlefield]

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

How do you explain their astronomical NEW record breaking profits during the Obama years?

1. NObama has more pals in the oil business than Bush did?

2. Since the dollar is worth so much less maybe the profits in real buying power are about the same?

3. Keeping the US dependent on foreign oil helps both terrorist nations and the oil companies profits?

4. The promise to bankrupt coal companies and to triple electric bills keeps driving the price of all energy up?

5. What about the astronomical NEW record breaking revenue for govt.?

All of the above tongue in cheek. I am sure we all can come up with more sterling explainable so have at it.

AKL

[thstone]

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

How do you explain their astronomical NEW record breaking profits during the Obama years?

I explain alll huge oil company profits during as nothing more than the oil industry grossly taking advantage of our dependence on oil. Nothing more, nothing less - simple good ol' fashioned greed.

The oil industry does it because they can and we are basically powerless to do anything about it. We're oil addicts who will pay anything for our fix.

[Allen K. Littlefield]

Originally Posted by thstone

I explain alll huge oil company profits during as nothing more than the oil industry grossly taking advantage of our dependence on oil. Nothing more, nothing less - simple good ol' fashioned greed.

The oil industry does it because they can and we are basically powerless to do anything about it. We're oil addicts who will pay anything for our fix.

Oil companies DO NOT set the price. The trading market does. Always the same old saw, greedy oil companies, never the actions of a greedy govt. Honestly guys chuck your high school and college propaganda, this grows tedious.

AKL

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by thstone

I explain alll huge oil company profits during as nothing more than the oil industry grossly taking advantage of our dependence on oil. Nothing more, nothing less - simple good ol' fashioned greed.

The oil industry does it because they can and we are basically powerless to do anything about it. We're oil addicts who will pay anything for our fix.

If Exxon's numbers are correct (I assume they are easy to check) their profit on gasoline amounted to .02 cents per gallon.

Why would you consider that a huge profit.

BTW-They pay over 41% of gross profit by way of corporate income taxes.

How much SHOULD they make?

[JTP]

It's been $5.19 on Maui.

[thstone]

A small handful of producers (OPEC) who set production limits apriori is not a sellers free market.

Equally, a small handful of sellers (Big Oil Companies) who effectively set the market price of gasoline to consumers world wide is not a free market.

In a true open market, oil production would rise substantially as soon as oil prices increase. Instead, prices go up and production stays constant.

Therefore, the worldwide oil market is not free nor open. Q.E.D.

[Allen K. Littlefield]

Originally Posted by thstone

A small handful of producers (OPEC) who set production limits apriori is not a sellers free market.

This is why we need to drill for our own here in the US.

Equally, a small handful of sellers (Big Oil Companies) who effectively set the market price of gasoline to consumers world wide is not a free market.

Repeat after me 100 times: Oil Companies DO NOT set the price of oil.
(they do set the price at the pump in your neighborhood based on what the oil futures are selling for. That is why a year ago the price at the pump was so much lower. Now why didn't they set the price at $5 a gallon a year ago if they are so greedy?)

In a true open market, oil production would rise substantially as soon as oil prices increase. Instead, prices go up and production stays constant.

Therefore, the worldwide oil market is not free nor open. Q.E.D.

NO it is not free and open when your own govt. is restricting trade through its various agencies and depts. i.e. Interior, Bureau of land management, dept of interior, epa, ad naseum. Due to the agenda to drive up the price of fuel you are seeing the results of this philosophy.

AKL

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by thstone

A small handful of producers (OPEC) who set production limits apriori is not a sellers free market.

Equally, a small handful of sellers (Big Oil Companies) who effectively set the market price of gasoline to consumers world wide is not a free market.

In a true open market, oil production would rise substantially as soon as oil prices increase. Instead, prices go up and production stays constant.

Therefore, the worldwide oil market is not free nor open. Q.E.D.

You avoided my questions" Is .02 per gallon excessive profits?

[thstone]

Brucelee, I meant to respond back...

Yes, $10,000,000,000 profit per quarter for a single company seems excessive and generally proves my point that there is inadequate competition in the oil industry. Only when competition is weak can a few companies control a market well enough to rack up some of the biggest profits of all time.

The oil companies are not doing anything "wrong" when they do this - in fact, they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do and designed to do - make as much profit as legally possible.

Thus, if I had any say in the matter (which I don't), I'd intoroduce measures that would increase competition to improve the efficiency of the overal oil market.

Just my humble opinion.

This makes no sense, sorry. The oil companies are big and generate alot of revenue. They also require a huge amount of invested capital. In proportion, they are "normal." Moreover, there are tons of smaller oil companies that you never hear of because they are.

I know them and invest in them. Believe me that the industry does not realize super normal profits.

Think of it this waY:

Exxon profit on a gallon of gas: .02 cents

Total tax on gallon of gas in many states: over .50 cents.

Who is raping whom?

[tonycarreon]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

They pay over 41% of gross profit by way of corporate income taxes.

not true - that number comes from ALL the taxes they pay : income, payroll, taxes they collect from the consumer (state, federal gas tax, etc.). the real number is closer to 20% (it fluctuates year to year with 2009 being almost 0%, 2010 being 18%)...

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by tonycarreon

not true - that number comes from ALL the taxes they pay : income, payroll, taxes they collect from the consumer (state, federal gas tax, etc.). the real number is closer to 20% (it fluctuates year to year with 2009 being almost 0%, 2010 being 18%)...

No, you are incorrect. That number would state and federal corporate income tax. It certainly does not include gas tax collections. Those go straight to the taxing authority after retail sale.

Check your facts out dude.

[tonycarreon]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

No, you are incorrect. That number would state and federal corporate income tax. It certainly does not include gas tax collections. Those go straight to the taxing authority after retail sale.

Check your facts out dude.

yes they go straight to the taxing authority, collected by exxon owned retail outlets. or are you saying that the money somehow magically goes from a consumer's bank account to the state's coffers without ever passing through the hands of exxon?

i never said that exxon paid those monies from their own pockets. just like they don't pay the sales taxes they collect from their own pockets. they merely collect and distribute to the taxing authority.

i don't know how you get a 41% tax rate on $107b in gross profit with $21b in taxes paid without including non-income taxes as "taxes paid." my math skills are not the greatest, but that comes out to 19.6%

we are essentially agreeing on the same thing. as much as i align myself as a democrat, and as much as i want "evil corporations" to pay their fair share, i do not vilify exxon, chevron, shell, or any other "big oil" company. they make money - that is their purpose. i am all for it. as long as the market will bear it, then they can make it. it sucks as the person paying $4.13/gallon, but that's the point of a free-market (even a pseudo-free market that we currently have.) i also don't buy the "exxon doesn't pay income taxes" or the "they make too much profit" arguments - both are false. they pay income taxes (2009 was effectively $0 because they overpaid in 2008, simple explanation.)

"Sales-based taxes and all other taxes and duties increased in 2011 reflecting higher prices." -- Form 10-Q, 3/31/2011

"The Corporation reports sales, excise and value-added taxes on sales transactions on a gross basis in the Consolidated Statement of Income (included in both revenues and costs)." -- Form 10-K, 2010

as an aside, please do not refer to me as "dude," we are not familiar enough with each other and it just feels like you are talking down to me.

[Brucelee]

I am saying from an accounting point of view, the line item called incomes taxes does NOT include pass through taxes like sales tax collected on the gas.

It DOES include Federal and State Corporate income taxes. Taxes of other kinds show up in other places in the income statement


In 2010, Exxon paid 21.561B in income taxes on 52.959 in pre-tax profits.

Make sense?

[mikefocke]

thinking of replacing my wife's car. And gas prices do factor in but, driving so little, it really is a surprisingly trivial amount compared to insurance, depreciation, etc. And gas $ are something you can do something about buying a hybrid or a car that uses regular or you can buy something bigger and more powerful. You have a choice.

We are highly sensitive to oil prices because we see the meter run when we pump the gas. Almost no other commodity do we buy where that is true. Others we buy by the month or by the fill but not by the penny. How many of us have an appliance which displays $ spent on electricity as it runs? A faucet which displays our cost per second waiting for the water to warm up? Might change our sensitivities or habits if we did.

Supply and demand. And speculation always occurs in a volatile market.

[tonycarreon]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

thinking of replacing my wife's car. And gas prices do factor in but, driving so little, it really is a surprisingly trivial amount compared to insurance, depreciation, etc. And gas $ are something you can do something about buying a hybrid or a car that uses regular or you can buy something bigger and more powerful. You have a choice.

We are highly sensitive to oil prices because we see the meter run when we pump the gas. Almost no other commodity do we buy where that is true. Others we buy by the month or by the fill but not by the penny. How many of us have an appliance which displays $ spent on electricity as it runs? A faucet which displays our cost per second waiting for the water to warm up? Might change our sensitivities or habits if we did.

Supply and demand. And speculation always occurs in a volatile market.

gas prices are also one of the few commodities that affect every other purchase. your hypothetical toaster costs more because the fuel used to bring it to the store or having it shipped. the bread that goes in the toaster will cost more, the eletricity dor the toaster will cost more, etc...