Whining about Porsche Maint. cost.

[ricklin]

Not me, just chatted with my Toyota dealer about 90 k svc. on my 03 4runner V8 4WD.

Would you believe about a grand for 90 K svc?

At 90 K it's due for a timing belt and sparkplugs. Plus the usual filters, lubes and of course the 'free' carwash.

Let's see about 450 for the tbelt. Dealer is running a special for 299. I'll have them do that.

The kicker? 300 bucks for replacing the spark plugs. A job that takes all of about a half hour, if that.

When I picked myself up off the floor, the kind dealer explained about the special irridium plugs, thus the high cost.

Hmm says I, I should check that out.

List is about 28 bucks each for the plugs. I can buy them for about 11 bucks each.

Since Toyota probably buys these plugs about a million at a time, I would guess their cost is substantially less than I can buy them for.

A 300% or more markup on spark plugs! Businees is business, this is not business, a 300% markup is criminal!!!

On second thought I'll have an independent do the belt as well.

Thanks for the chance to vent.

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

HA... HA... Can't wait to hear what you're gonna say once that Boxster is out of warranty...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[ricklin]

The Box is my 3rd P car, so I know what to expect in terms of maint. cost. I guess my point is I DON'T expect those kinds of costs on a mainstream vehicle.

Perhap's the other Manuf. are taking lessons from the folks in Stuttgart.

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

Well, it's all a matter of perspective. If that's all the repair cost you've racked up in 90k mi., that works out to a very reasonable $0.011/mi.

Then, you look at whom has benefitted from such low-maintenance cars. Toyota certainly benefits from greater reliability by increasing Market Share. The Buyer benefits from low costs. But, the Dealer's Service Dept. suffers because they have a much lower potential R&R revenue from each unit sold, while their overhead remains stagnant or actually increases what with annually increased Labor Costs, etc.

In order to maintain a quality Facility and Staff, they have to meet these costs somewhere. Either they Service a lot of cars (with stiff competition from Independents doing everything from Tune-ups, Oil changes, Brakes, Exhaust, Tires and more), or they increase their mark-up on the parts and services they provide. It's actually a combination of both.

But, costs are increasing despite greater reliability in cars. An '03 SUV costs on average $0.651/mi. to operate (based upon 10k mi./yr.), up from $0.63 in '02 according to AAA (and they were using a $1.46/gal fuel calculator) - http://www.pimall.com/nais/nl/n.costpermile.html . In the end, the Buyer doesn't really save as much money as the increase in Reliability and extended Maintenance Schedules might suggest, especially when dealing with a Dealer...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[dcporsche99]

Hmmmm, interesting info Jim! I guess I never really thought about the cost and maintainence in those terms. Good to know. Thanks.

[SD987]

Ricklin, was that your car at the Encinitas Ranch golf course a couple Saturdays ago? If so, then I was the one parked next to you for the dueling 987S effect in Carrara White.

[ricklin]

SD 987
Nope not me, darn that would have been pretty cool.

Jim:
It's no wonder that folks have taken to calling these guys 'stealers" rather than dealers.

I'm a wholesale rep. so it is part of my nature to try to look at profit margins. I don't begrudge making a profit, heck it's what makes the world go round in the good old USA.

I determine who is an authorized distributor for the products I represent. If I caught one of my dealers putting these kind of margins on replacement parts I would end our business relationship the same day.

I guess I feel for the folks who pay 28.00 for an 11.00 dollar item. Easier for us gearheads to spot a ripoff like this. Not so easy for the mechanically disinclined.

And it is a ripoff.

[Dr. Kill]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

Then, you look at whom has benefitted from such low-maintenance cars. Toyota certainly benefits from greater reliability by increasing Market Share. The Buyer benefits from low costs. But, the Dealer's Service Dept. suffers because they have a much lower potential R&R revenue from each unit sold, while their overhead remains stagnant or actually increases what with annually increased Labor Costs, etc.

In order to maintain a quality Facility and Staff, they have to meet these costs somewhere. Either they Service a lot of cars (with stiff competition from Independents doing everything from Tune-ups, Oil changes, Brakes, Exhaust, Tires and more), or they increase their mark-up on the parts and services they provide. It's actually a combination of both.

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Your model assumes all dealer repair shops are similarly staffed and equipped. If Toyota needs to service 50% fewer vehicles than Chevy (example data), we would expect their repair shop to be set up with 50% less staffing and equipment (50% less costs). If the cost of parts and labor goes up, it is the same percentage across the board, regardless of the size of the shop. This would not justify a markup on parts in excess of markups by other dealers. How does this figure into your argument?

[Brucelee]

Markups don't need to be justified, except in the marketplace. If a seller prices their product too high (irrespective of its cost) versus the alternative, they will tend to not sell the product.

The reverse is true.

Simple, no?

[Dr. Kill]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

Markups don't need to be justified

they don't need to be justified, but sometimes they do need to be complained about

Originally Posted by Dr. Kill

they don't need to be justified, but sometimes they do need to be complained about

Very true, Doc, and one of the best was to do that is with our wallet, and by NOT patronizing that store/business person/etc. And, telling others to stay away too.

[Brucelee]

The freedom to walk away is wonderful!!!!!!!

[Ronzi]

Sounds to me like the automobile service sector isn't hiring nearly enough illegal immigrants (body shops excepted). Even so the cost of service to the consumer wouldn't necessarily go down, but the profit margin would sure go up.

[racer_d]

You do realize the dealer is in business to make money, not loose it. The service area is THE profit center for a dealer. A one time sale is good for the salesman, the repeat business for service keeps them in the black.

90K service for $1000? Doesn't seem so bad ( ), depending on what they do. Sure, you could do all the work yourself (which would save you the typical shop rate of $70-90/hr), but please add back in the cost of doing it yourself.. What is your hourly wage? How many hours would it take to assemble all the parts/tools needed?

For me, I don't really have the desire to change belts and perform coolant changes (and repressurizing the system) at home. I am willing to let a dealer do that. Changing filters, oil, spark plugs and brake pads are pretty easy stuff.

BTW, how much mark up do you think there is for a Big Mac? A Starbuck Cappucino? A suit at a fine department store? I would expect at least 100% mark up, likely many times more

[Dr. Kill]

Originally Posted by racer_d

90K service for $1000? Doesn't seem so bad ( ), depending on what they do. Sure, you could do all the work yourself (which would save you the typical shop rate of $70-90/hr), but please add back in the cost of doing it yourself.. What is your hourly wage? How many hours would it take to assemble all the parts/tools needed?

Good point, I bill out to my clients at $425 per hour (retail). They complain about that too I am sure. If I were to consider the opportunity cost of me doing this work myself, it doesn't make economic sense when you consider my lost time at work, and all of the damage I would do to my car in the attempt.

Dr. Kill and Racer_d have a very good perspective. Price (dollars and cents) are only a part of the overall "Value Proposition".

The price of something (anything) is only a part of the true costs.