drove my first american car today

[John V]

The interior of the C6 isn't the best, but IMO it's as nice or nicer than a base 986 interior in terms of fit, finish and quality of materials. As far as stying goes, I think the C6 is positively beautiful. I don't like the fit of the headlights the best, but the rest of the look is clean and purposeful.

Of course it's not going to look as exotic as a Ford GT or a Ferrari. Would you pay $60k-$120k to upgrade your Corvette interior to that of a GT or an F430 if you still had a Corvette afterwards? $60k is about the price differential between a C6 and a GT. The Corvette is built to a price, and the money goes into the stuff that matters - the chassis and drivetrain.

[z12358]

Originally Posted by John V

The one area where they are really lacking is in handling FEEL. Somehow Chevy hasn't found a way to acheive the wonderful steering feel and chassis feedback of a Boxster. Supposedly, the C6 was a step in the wrong direction in this regard, but again I haven't driven one.

...and, to me, FEEL is mostly what matters when I take my Box top-down in the twisties.

Z.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by John V

The interior of the C6 isn't the best, but IMO it's as nice or nicer than a base 986 interior in terms of fit, finish and quality of materials. As far as stying goes, I think the C6 is positively beautiful. I don't like the fit of the headlights the best, but the rest of the look is clean and purposeful.

Of course it's not going to look as exotic as a Ford GT or a Ferrari. Would you pay $60k-$120k to upgrade your Corvette interior to that of a GT or an F430 if you still had a Corvette afterwards? $60k is about the price differential between a C6 and a GT. The Corvette is built to a price, and the money goes into the stuff that matters - the chassis and drivetrain.

well I was referring more to the more important exterior styling than the interior.
but...
I don't think the C6 or Z06 even looks like a $60K car let alone $120K.
To me both look like a $40K car, Tops. Its looks aren't bad but sooo bland.
The wheels look like they came out of the wheels section of the Sears Auto Store.
There is nothing on the car that would make it memorable. 100% Vanilla.

Do you know how many people have stopped me and thought my car looked like a $70K car? They couldn't believe me when I told them that you could find a very similar one for under $30K.

The styling on the C6 and ZO6 are really no different, you would have to look closely to tell them apart.

[John V]

Hm. To each his own, I guess. The looks of the Boxster are probably last on the list of things I would list under "positives." On the other hand, I absolutely love the looks of the Corvette, both vanilla and Z06. Nothing more than personal preference really.

Wheels are easy to change. A nice set of CCWs would set the car off nicely. At least Chevy spent the money to equip the car with factory wheels that are strong and light - unlike Porsche, who chose to equip the Boxster with 30+lb wheels, with the exception of the lightweight 5-spokes like you have.

I love the feel of the car too, that's why I chose it over a C5 Z06 which would have been an awesome competition car as well. Excellent, just different. The Boxster is hard to beat; it has a vice-free chassis with neutral handling from the factory. Absolutely brilliant for a car with four struts.

[z12358]

Excuse my ignorance but aren't the Corvette's body panels made of plastic? I guess, that's how what looks like a large car can only weigh about 3000lbs. Looks almost like cheating.

Seriously, if that's true how come other sports cars haven't picked up this "secret" way of shedding weight? A plastic Boxster would come out sub 2500 lbs.

Z.

[John V]

Plastic has this not-so-wonderful property of having a huge thermal coefficient of expansion. Ever notice how huge the body gaps on a 'Vette are in cold weather? Plastic also isn't very good structurally, so the Corvette has to have what amounts to a seperate body and frame. Can't be made a true unibody like a Boxster, 911, et al.

Otherwise, it's brilliant that Chevy uses plastic for the body. The aluminum suspension components are nice, too. The lightweight pushrod V8 with a low CG and compact size due to its lack of overhead camshafts, too. Oh, and the composite leaf springs that cut weight and move what weight they do contribute down low, to keep the Cg of the car low.

Regardless of the car's rather .. unpleasant image, it's a very well engineered car.

[Bavarian Motorist]

I noticed when driving the c6 that I did not really feel it when accelerating. OK, yeah, I felt the torque and power, but in my Boxster, you definitely feel it in a different way.

In the c6, it almost felt like I was in a family sedan w/ 500hp.


But the real reason I want a c6 is because of what I said earlier, that I can either buy a very powerful car and make it handle or I can buy a real handling sports car and spend.....endless amounts making it fast.

Which one seems easier to you?

I really need to drive the c6 again and check for the things I didn't notice last time. Feel and handling will be on my list.


I love my Boxster, though. The other day I was hanging w/ a girl and she knows nothing about cars, but I took her up to redline in first and she said she nearly orgasmed.

Porsche...making girls orgasm since 1950

[mtch]

Originally Posted by z12358

Excuse my ignorance but aren't the Corvette's body panels made of plastic? I guess, that's how what looks like a large car can only weigh about 3000lbs. Looks almost like cheating.


Z.

many have said that the vette looks like big car, but the C6 is actually smaller than the 997 according to R & T. I assume that would make it about the size of a 986.

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by mtch

many have said that the vette looks like big car, but the C6 is actually smaller than the 997 according to R & T. I assume that would make it about the size of a 986.

Are you sure? The Vette has a relatively long wheelbase of 107"

[mtch]

Originally Posted by John V

I don't like the fit of the headlights the best, but the rest of the look is clean and purposeful.

I also read the the headlights were the result of time lost during the 24 hrs of LeMans while driving with headlights. I think it was 2003. The C-5 won, but lost a lot of time due to increased drag of the flip up head lights. The race team complained, and Chevy responded.

I love the lights of the C-6. In fact, if the C-5 had the lights of the C-6, I would have bought one instead of my Boxster.

[mtch]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

Are you sure? The Vette has a relatively long wheelbase of 107"

I just checked, this is what I have

C-6 L: 174.6 W: 72.6 H: 49.1 WB: 105.7


997 L: 174.3 W: 72.2 H: 51.6 WB: 92.5


Notice the length vs the wheel base. That means that the 997 has much larger overhang which is a detriment to agility

[z12358]

Originally Posted by John V

Plastic has this not-so-wonderful property of having a huge thermal coefficient of expansion. Ever notice how huge the body gaps on a 'Vette are in cold weather? Plastic also isn't very good structurally, so the Corvette has to have what amounts to a seperate body and frame. Can't be made a true unibody like a Boxster, 911, et al.

Otherwise, it's brilliant that Chevy uses plastic for the body. The aluminum suspension components are nice, too. The lightweight pushrod V8 with a low CG and compact size due to its lack of overhead camshafts, too. Oh, and the composite leaf springs that cut weight and move what weight they do contribute down low, to keep the Cg of the car low.

Regardless of the car's rather .. unpleasant image, it's a very well engineered car.

My question was really rhetorical. If other companies thought a plastic body was a good idea, they would have done it too. Personally, I prefer metal.

Z.

[Dr. Kill]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

But the real reason I want a c6 is because of what I said earlier, that I can either buy a very powerful car and make it handle or I can buy a real handling sports car and spend.....endless amounts making it fast.

Your logic is sound, but I think you will find that the C6 is already a very good handling car - especially when ordered with the performance handling package.

A guy I work with sold his Ferrari 348 Challenge edition and bought a new C6 and is very happy. His only complaint is having a difficult time finding a set of slicks.

[eslai]

I've driven my friend's C6 (also has a Borla exhaust on it) a few times. It's a VERY different experience from my car.

Big power, but I missed revving the engine--you never need to get over 2000 RPMs in the Vette really. Hell, the thing will idle up a hill in fourth gear!

Hate the cheap interior and all the squeaks and rattles he's got, and the clutch took a while to get used to (and I'm pretty sure that all clutches are hydraulically-assisted these days--the C6 just has a heavier pressure plate than the Boxster probably, and for good reason). The C6 also feels a lot bigger when you're driving it, even though it's really not a big car at all.

He has a big problem with the gear box though. If he tries to shift into third gear quickly, often times the car ends up in a half-engaged state. It's a common report among C6 owners apparently.

Not the car for me, but I love the way it looks and damn, that's a fast car!

Oh, and I'm not diggin' his headless-dwarf steering wheel:



But GM's already fixed that issue.

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by Dr. Kill

Your logic is sound, but I think you will find that the C6 is already a very good handling car - especially when ordered with the performance handling package.

A guy I work with sold his Ferrari 348 Challenge edition and bought a new C6 and is very happy. His only complaint is having a difficult time finding a set of slicks.

Yes, you're right. 'Handle' wasn't the right word. 'Road feel' is more like it.

Originally Posted by Eslai

I've driven my friend's C6 (also has a Borla exhaust on it) a few times. It's a VERY different experience from my car.

Big power, but I missed revving the engine--you never need to get over 2000 RPMs in the Vette really. Hell, the thing will idle up a hill in fourth gear!

Hate the cheap interior and all the squeaks and rattles he's got, and the clutch took a while to get used to (and I'm pretty sure that all clutches are hydraulically-assisted these days--the C6 just has a heavier pressure plate than the Boxster probably, and for good reason). The C6 also feels a lot bigger when you're driving it, even though it's really not a big car at all.

He has a big problem with the gear box though. If he tries to shift into third gear quickly, often times the car ends up in a half-engaged state. It's a common report among C6 owners apparently.

Not the car for me, but I love the way it looks and damn, that's a fast car!

Oh, and I'm not diggin' his headless-dwarf steering wheel

That is hilarious




The gear problem could be the CAGS (computer aided gear selection) which forces you to go into 4th gear from first unless you're hitting the gas hard, a way to increase EPA gas mileage so as to avoid the gas guzzler tax.


It is a 20 dollar fix called a cags eliminator if he is interested. I'm pretty sure every c6 owner except him has it


http://www.ledfoote.com/osc/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=62

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by z12358

Excuse my ignorance but aren't the Corvette's body panels made of plastic? I guess, that's how what looks like a large car can only weigh about 3000lbs. Looks almost like cheating.

Seriously, if that's true how come other sports cars haven't picked up this "secret" way of shedding weight? A plastic Boxster would come out sub 2500 lbs.

Z.

Hi,

The car isn't Plastic, it's composite GRP - Glass Reinforced Plastic - a composition of materials which, when brought together under the right conditions, form a tough, lightweight, durable laminate with countless strengths.

GRP doesn't dent, corrode, rot, or support infestation and has a high strength-to-weight ratio being several times stronger than mild steel on a weight for weight basis.

It can be engineered (by layering and Glass Fibre orientation) to provide greater/lesser strength as required throughout the Body structure, unlike mild steel.

Also, because the Car doesn't have the same rigidity as Uni-Body construction, the Frame must be better engineered to provide this strength. So, it has a better Frame, lower Mass, lighter weight, and corrosion resistance (actually corrosion-free).

Lots of other cars have picked-up this secret through the years. In fact, some of the Best Performers such as Lotus, TVR, Marcos, Ferrari, McLaren, Koenigsegg, Pagani, and virtually all F1, Cart, Indy and Champ Cars of the past 40 years have used this technology to great success. Porsche too cheats with it's Urethane Bumpers and Alloy Deck Lids. The single biggest reason it is not more prevelant is cost - it is more costly (on a per unit basis) than stamping Body panels from mild steel.

No, if you're going to criticize the Corvette, Body composition and construction isn't the place to do it. It's really quite brilliant!...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[super66]

[QUOTE=eslai]

sweet, looks like he got the chevy blazer steering wheel package

yeah, not that big of a fan of the interior or lack of pop up head lights....

[Bavarian Motorist]

Now I am really effin' kicking myself, guys.


I didn't get a 'Vette cause I wanted the convertible which is about 9k more...


Now I just found out that the coupe version has a removable roof panel standard, and you can even get that as a glass roof as a 750 dollar option.


Now I am severely depressed.


Oh well. I'll just enjoy my lovely Box for now

[Perfectlap]

[QUOTE=super66]

Originally Posted by eslai

sweet, looks like he got the chevy blazer steering wheel package

yeah, not that big of a fan of the interior or lack of pop up head lights....

gee I need some coffee, it took a whole five minutes before I figured out
that its a head, two arms a big belly and two legs.

[z12358]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

The car isn't Plastic, it's composite GRP - Glass Reinforced Plastic - a composition of materials which, when brought together under the right conditions, form a tough, lightweight, durable laminate with countless strengths.

GRP doesn't dent, corrode, rot, or support infestation and has a high strength-to-weight ratio being several times stronger than mild steel on a weight for weight basis.

It can be engineered (by layering and Glass Fibre orientation) to provide greater/lesser strength as required throughout the Body structure, unlike mild steel.

Also, because the Car doesn't have the same rigidity as Uni-Body construction, the Frame must be better engineered to provide this strength. So, it has a better Frame, lower Mass, lighter weight, and corrosion resistance (actually corrosion-free).

Lots of other cars have picked-up this secret through the years. In fact, some of the Best Performers such as Lotus, TVR, Marcos, Ferrari, McLaren, Koenigsegg, Pagani, and virtually all F1, Cart, Indy and Champ Cars of the past 40 years have used this technology to great success. Porsche too cheats with it's Urethane Bumpers and Alloy Deck Lids. The single biggest reason it is not more prevelant is cost - it is more costly (on a per unit basis) than stamping Body panels from mild steel.

No, if you're going to criticize the Corvette, Body composition and construction isn't the place to do it. It's really quite brilliant!...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Thx for the explanation. From the 10mins I spent googling GRP, these are the few things I learned:

1. Also called fiberglass.
2. Easy to mold into various shapes, and it is used for low volume car production when building the steel (or aluminum) stamping machines is not cost effective.
3. The most cost-effective kit-car solution.
4. Lighter and stronger than steel. I'm not a mechanical engineer but I know that there are many different strength characteristics defining materials, so the issue is never one-dimensional.
5. Now, carbon-fiber, on the other hand...

You nailed the fiberglass's "rigidity" problem vs unibody right on the head. Drive a Boxster right after driving a Corvette. It feels like it was made of one piece. Drive the Corvette again and the rattles and squeaks become even more obvious -- even in the Coupe (not even talking about the convertible). Fiberglass pieces may have advantages over equivalent steel/aluminum pieces but you cannot weld them to the rest of the car/frame.

Without question, the Corvette is a formidable performance value for $. But free lunches are very rare. Anyway, it was good to learn something about plastic composites today.

Z.