You know whats nice ?

[NickCats]

Originally Posted by bmussatti

Why do cigarette smokers throw their butts out in the sidewalks and streets, or when driving they throw them out the window? This irritates me as much, if not more, than the actual second-hand smoke.

It shocks me that young people today start smoking, with everything we know about the health risks associated with cigarettes. But, I guess they feel invincible.

bmus,

Unfortunately, I am a smoker. I have promised the missus I will quit when we start a family. I try to be a courteous smoker, and put my butts in an ashtray or garbage can when available. I no longer smoke in my cars, but I used to throw the butts out the window because they would stink up the car. While in New York, all the bars, restaurants, and even the entire hotel was non-smoking. Inconvenient, yes, but I don't complain about anti-smoking laws because it is my choice to smoke but not fair ( IMHO ) to disturb the rights of others. It is an expensive, dirty habit and it kills me to spend 6 hrs a week in the gym and then smoke a pack a day. But, it is also a very hard habit to break. Society is becoming very unfriendly to smokers, but truth is by not smoking in my car, in a restaurant, or a bar, I smoke less, which I know is better for my health. My wife does not smoke, and when she becomes pregnant I do not want to smoke around her or the baby so I think that will be a great motivation to quit.

Just my $0.02

Nick

Originally Posted by NickCats

bmus,

Unfortunately, I am a smoker. I have promised the missus I will quit when we start a family. I try to be a courteous smoker, and put my butts in an ashtray or garbage can when available. I no longer smoke in my cars, but I used to throw the butts out the window because they would stink up the car. While in New York, all the bars, restaurants, and even the entire hotel was non-smoking. Inconvenient, yes, but I don't complain about anti-smoking laws because it is my choice to smoke but not fair ( IMHO ) to disturb the rights of others. It is an expensive, dirty habit and it kills me to spend 6 hrs a week in the gym and then smoke a pack a day. But, it is also a very hard habit to break. Society is becoming very unfriendly to smokers, but truth is by not smoking in my car, in a restaurant, or a bar, I smoke less, which I know is better for my health. My wife does not smoke, and when she becomes pregnant I do not want to smoke around her or the baby so I think that will be a great motivation to quit.

Just my $0.02

Nick

Nick, I have a ton of respect for people who can quit a habit (drugs, alcohol, ciggs, whatever). I can only imagine how very-very difficult it is to stop smoking.

One of the best gifts you could ever give your future children and "C" would be becoming a non-smoker and teaching your kids that smoking is something they should never do.

Try to quit well before the baby. Being a new parent is stress enough! Being a new parent and trying to become a non-smoker could prove to be just too overwhelming at on-time.

Take care.

[z12358]

Originally Posted by jeffsquire

_____________________________
You mean the freedom you take from those who choose to smoke in public places against those nonsmokers who choose to voluntarily attend those same public places? Sounds like a strawman argument to me.

My advice is to avoid patronage of smoke-freindly restaruants and establishments. There are plenty of them out there. ANd while you're there, quaff some CocaCola, imbibe bourbon, gorge cake, wallow in fried food and loosen your belt as it rubs against the table, but enjoy yourself.

You seem to have missed the class about why laws, rules, and regulations are neccessary in a society of two or more free individuals. Or forget the roots of law -- Ever heard of the 'golden rule'?

So your proposed solution to every free individual in a free society is: If something (bullet, baseball bat, bomb, noise, spit, smoke, etc.) is about to negatively affect you in a public space, shut your mouth and just stay away, lest you (god forbid!) limit the freedom of the ones who are causing it!?

Z.

[Bavarian Motorist]

Haha. NY does not allow smoking in public buildings.

NY is civilized. I love NY


EDIT: Just read some of the thread.


Unlike smoking, people using automobiles and creating fumes has a purpose. A REAL meaningful useful efficient purpose.


You can't make the same argument for cigarettes, therefore the two are not comparable.

/end discussion.

[super66]

lots of .02 flying around but that's just my .02

Nickcats....man I used to smoke like a fiend.....1 and a half to 2 packs a day...lucky strikes no filter or my favorite camel wide lights....one day I caught a flu/cold that nagged me for about a week and a half, during that time my brother quit smoking...once I got better I decided not to smoke since I didn't want to tempt him.....weird but I quit just like that....all my friends still smoke and can't believe I kicked tha habit so easily.....

now if I could only see chocolate out of my life in such a manner

give it up when you can, you won't believe how much better you will feel....the change is like nothing else....

[jeffsquire]

Originally Posted by z12358

So your proposed solution to every free individual in a free society is: If something (bullet, baseball bat, bomb, noise, spit, smoke, etc.) is about to negatively affect you in a public space, shut your mouth and just stay away, lest you (god forbid!) limit the freedom of the ones who are causing it!Z.

_______________________________________________

Talk about the ultimate straw man argument . . . . . comparing chosing to smoke in a public place and equating it to exploding bombs and shooting guns in public places. Right . . . .

[jeffsquire]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

Haha. NY does not allow smoking in public buildings.
Unlike smoking, people using automobiles and creating fumes has a purpose. A REAL meaningful useful efficient purpose /end discussion.

___________________________________

What possible, useful purpose could be in owning a HUMMVEE, a Ferrari, any SUV, or a Porsche for that matter when there are much more fuel efficient cars and trucks out there? They're not efficient and mostly serve no purpose except the wants and ego of the owner, including myself. At least I admit it.

But at this time I'll join the likes of MNboxster and Bavarian Motorist and end my .02 cents. We all have opinions, I'm merely expressing mine as a nonsmoker.

[z12358]

Originally Posted by jeffsquire

_______________________________________________

Talk about the ultimate straw man argument . . . . . comparing chosing to smoke in a public place and equating it to exploding bombs and shooting guns in public places. Right . . . .

You keep refering to the 'strawman argument' and, in my opinion, don't really understand it. The list in the brackets was not there for comparison, but for analogy. Regardless, you could have just disregarded the bracketed text and addressed my statement on its own merits, but chose not to do so. And that's fine, too. It's a free country.

Z.

[RandallNeighbour]

Originally Posted by bmussatti

At one time I thought you worked for the IRS (when you were getting your promotion). And then, most recently, I thought you worked for the Insurance Industry.

I know what OhioBoxster does for a living and I'm not telling. He threatened to beat me up real good and then turn me over to his wife for a second beating if I told so I'm not gonna say a word because life is precious, you know!


Now for any of you who do not think it's worth a day or two's drive to meet up with us on May 5 at (the head or) the Tail of the Dragon, here's a little video to whet your appetite. Please forgive the fact that it's a video shot in a MR2 with a V6 dropped in it:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1383156232158565079&q=mr2+spyder+v6&hl=en

The turns and curves just keep coming and seem to never stop. Oh boy! I can't wait.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

Now for any of you who do not think it's worth a day or two's drive to meet up with us on May 5 at (the head or) the Tail of the Dragon, here's a little video to whet your appetite. Please forgive the fact that it's a video shot in a MR2 with a V6 dropped in it:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1383156232158565079&q=mr2+spyder+v6&hl=en

The turns and curves just keep coming and seem to never stop. Oh boy! I can't wait.

Now I have goose bumps :chicken:
So when is everyone from Houston heading out ?

[RandallNeighbour]

Details to follow, but I think we must leave on the 3rd to be there on the evening of the 4th so we are bright eyed and bushy tailed for meeting up on the morning of the 5th.

I have driven my boxster from coast to coast and back and I must say it's not the best long-drive car I have been in for sure! I can drive my Lexus for 10+ hours a day and not be worn out, but the boxster is not nearly as kind to my back and legs. I can usually do 6-8 max in it.

I will do some planning and get back with you for further discussions.

Randall, cool video link. I am getting psyched.

What is the speed limit at the TOD?

[Sammy]

Do we have a thread going for details about the TOD meeting in May? Count me in for the trip!

Details such as:
1) Is the plan to meet up for the day on the 5th, hang out that night and start heading back on the 6th? Or be there for driving/hanging out on the 5th and 6th?
2) Are we allowed to invite others that are interested in a fun trip but may drive an alternative vehicle like a M3?
3) Who is going?

[RandallNeighbour]

Originally Posted by bmussatti

What is the speed limit at the TOD?

I do not know and frankly, I do not care. That's why God put Michael Valentine on this planet.

[RandallNeighbour]

Originally Posted by Sammy

Do we have a thread going for details about the TOD meeting in May? Count me in for the trip!

Details such as:
1) Is the plan to meet up for the day on the 5th, hang out that night and start heading back on the 6th? Or be there for driving/hanging out on the 5th and 6th?
2) Are we allowed to invite others that are interested in a fun trip but may drive an alternative vehicle like a M3?
3) Who is going?

We don't have an official thread yet because I wanted to have some firm details about lodging options, etc. However, I'm more than willing to chime in here and tell you what I'd love to see:

1. Meet up on the morning of the 5th at some restaurant on one end or the other for breakfast quite early so we can drive it before it gets thick with bikes and cars. At this breakfast, we can decide what we want to do, where to meet for dinner that night, etc.

2. My buddy, who owns a MR2 Spyder with a V6 in it, instigated all this in the first place. So, I'd say we must accomodate anyone in anything fast enough to keep up. Hopefully, my buddy won't feel this same way because his Spyder's performance is well beyond my boxster, that's for sure! I'd love to see some M3's join us. Lord knows we're the "nice, un-snooty" Pcar owners and not at all like those arrogant air-cooled 911 owners who won't even flash their lights or wave at me when I drive by.

3. Who's going? I dunno. At least 6 of us from what I know, and it will probably be a lot more once we get some firm details posted.

What I think I will do is to put up a new page on my web site and ask Rich to put a link on the front page so everyone can go to it and see what's up. This may work better than a thread by itself and we can then start an official thread as well.

Ohioboxster: I am sorry I hijacked this thread. So, in honor of you, I will try to find a non-smoking restaurant for the trip!

[jeffsquire]

Originally Posted by z12358

You keep refering to the 'strawman argument' and, in my opinion, don't really understand it. The list in the brackets was not there for comparison, but for analogy. Regardless, you could have just disregarded the bracketed text and addressed my statement on its own merits, but chose not to do so. And that's fine, too. It's a free country. :Z.

_________________________

I'm completely familiar with the strawman argument as it is used against me and I use it (along with a variety of other thigns) in court every week. I stand by my response to your entire paragraph including my comment of the strawman. That was my answer.

But you're right. I didnt address this:

You seem to have missed the class about why laws, rules, and regulations are neccessary in a society of two or more free individuals. Or forget the roots of law -- Ever heard of the 'golden rule'?

Regulations are always necessary and you've never heard me advocate for anarchy. The golden rule is is traditionally defined as treat others as you would want to be treated. With that being said, regarding antismoking laws, I would not like to be treated the way smokers are today. Thus I defend them and treat them as I would want to be treated.

[NickCats]

bmuss,

There are posted speed limits on the TOD, but no one seemed to follow them. I did the tail in 2005 on the Harley, and I was speed limited by those in front of me, but the crotch rockets were zipping around us at their leisure.

Sammy,

I drove from here to Chattanooga in one day on the bike, so it should be an easy one day drive in the Box.

Can't wait !!!

Nick