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Old 01-03-2007, 07:00 AM   #1
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You know whats nice ?

No smoking in bars! I dont go out very often but the other night was my friends birthday. We went out to a local place and it was great not going home smelling like an ash tray. The law is new in for my County and I thjink Im going to like it. Im not a whiney non smoker by the way dont get me wrong but I must admit to liking the change.

I have to edit, its actualy no smoking in public places or within 20' of a public entrance etc etc....
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Old 01-03-2007, 07:39 AM   #2
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smoke em if you got em

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Originally Posted by ohioboxster
No smoking in bars! I dont go out very often but the other night was my friends birthday. We went out to a local place and it was great not going home smelling like an ash tray. The law is new in for my County and I thjink Im going to like it. Im not a whiney non smoker by the way dont get me wrong but I must admit to liking the change.

I have to edit, its actualy no smoking in public places or within 20' of a public entrance etc etc....
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I'm not a smoker except for an occasional cigar, but I'm against these antismoking and anti-transfat laws. I support smokers. IMHO if one doesnt like the smoke in the bar then just find another place and viceversa if you smoke. Or the owners of the establishment are not doing their job.

Can't wait to see the responses on this. . . ..
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Old 01-03-2007, 08:04 AM   #3
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Same here...not a smoker but I go to Cigar Lounge once a month. I agree with Jeff, IMHO if one doesnt like the smoke in the bar then just find another place and viceversa if you smoke (qoute taken from Jeff post's)

That's why i'ts very rare for me to go to Vegas or Tahoe/Reno, unless I go Snowboarding in North Tahoe and need a place to stay. It's my choice not to go there

But, yah..It fells really good going to a place that is smoke free
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Old 01-03-2007, 08:18 AM   #4
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They did that crap here in Austin I think starting last year. I hadn't been down town in quite a while, then in May, I went to meet a woman at a club, and noticed something missing... then I realized... no one is smoking?!?

Yeah, it's nice not smelling like I chainsmoked a carton of Camels when leaving, but it's still odd to me.

I'm all for people's right to choose to poison themselves... and I understand the law as limiting their ability to affect other (innocent?) people... but OTOH, I still think a bar or night club is a place where you should just expect there to be smoke.
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Old 01-03-2007, 08:35 AM   #5
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It's really simple. Anyone should be free to kill themselves with the method of their choice, as long as they don't affect others while doing so. Hence, anti-transfat laws may be too restrictive as one needs to prove that unhealthy people raise the health care costs for all, but anti-smoking laws are right on the money. The effect to others here is much more clear. NYC has been smoke-free for three years now and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Personally, I consider it a matter of disrespect when someone expects me to breathe the smoke they are exhaling. Yes, even on the street. Assuming that I enjoy recreational spitting, I wonder what a smoker's reaction would be if I spit at them on the street, or at the bar?

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Old 01-03-2007, 08:37 AM   #6
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thats one of the worst things ever, going out and comeing back home smelling like an astray.
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Old 01-03-2007, 08:44 AM   #7
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first, think this thread is for the Lounge forum.

second, its way overdue that smoking in ALL shared spaces be banned.
There's little doubt about lethal second hand smoke. Let's stop playing
in the past, we are allot smarter nowadays.

I feel bad for all those people who chose to work in diners and eateries
where they ended up sucking in smoke, getting cancer, dropping dead and they were never smokers themselves or warned about the greater risk of 2nd hand smoke vs. "1st hand smoke".

I'm sorta a libertarian(sp?), do what you want with your body but dont':

1-Expect public assistance to treat your health care bills for your personal choices.
*This includes high cholesterol diets, trans fats should be banned from fast food eateries. Both smoking and cholesterol and the heart attacks and strokes they cause are killing several jumbo jet airliners full of people EVERY DAY.
If you get a physical and your doctor says "lay off the french fries" Medicare should not pay for your future treatment and private insurance rates should be raised for 'high risk' policy holders, much like driving.

2-Don't compromise the quality of life of others so that you can enjoy your choices.


People expect to be able to do whatever they want to do and want everyone else to pay for it.
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Old 01-03-2007, 08:54 AM   #8
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Perfectlap,
I didnt put it in the lounge in case a smoker wanted to read it, duh.
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Old 01-03-2007, 09:15 AM   #9
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P-L ...I could not have said it better.

The local hospital where my wife works - as of Jan1 - will not allow smoking on any of their grounds..including the sidewalks around the property...outlying parking lots, etc. "You junkies: stay off our property!" (I was one....)

j i m
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Old 01-03-2007, 09:30 AM   #10
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Perfectlap,
I didnt put it in the lounge in case a smoker wanted to read it, duh.
good one.

put it in the hperbearic chamber forum. The smokers there haven't seen daylight since November.

p.s.
I was a big cigar poser for years. You know, ocassionaly smoked cigars with wine.
Not a hardcore daily smoker. I even met the editor of cigar afficionado Marvin something or other. I was partial to torpedos with less draw. I once attended a cigar tasting where we smoked five kinds of cigars, had 7 kinds of wines and had a six course meal after a cocktail reception of Sherry and other fine food. The restarant was somewhat infamous as it was blown up on an episode of the Sopranos. I was so blasted on nicotine and alcohol when I stumbled out of there... and some guys do that every weekend!
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Old 01-03-2007, 11:27 AM   #11
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There are tons of cocktail, barterder and waiter jobs in AC (as well as Las Vegas) that can be found outside of casinos. Those workers have a choice, chase the big tips of whales and risk their health or make less money where the air isn't lethal.
Reminds me of the movie "Thank You for not Smoking". At some point personal choice and responsibility kicks in.
Although I would like to be in a Casino for a few hours without both killing myself and and my bank account.
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Old 01-03-2007, 11:56 AM   #12
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Businesses lobbying against anti-smoking laws are really short-sighted, in my view. How do they know that those laws will actually hurt their business? With the public's awareness rising and the number of smokers dwindling, how do they know that "smoking allowed" isn't actually hurting business by turning away the rising number of clients who'd prefer a smoke free venue?

Before the smoking ban in NYC, many venue owners were afraid that they'd go bankrupt from the anticipated drop in patronage. Instead, three years later, I bet neither of them would allow smoking even if the ban was lifted -- in fear of losing the patrons who appreciate the cleaner air. Why should casinos be any different?

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Old 01-03-2007, 12:04 PM   #13
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99.9% of casino regulars smoke, drink and wear silk shirts and or some article of gold.
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Old 01-03-2007, 12:10 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Perfectlap
99.9% of casino regulars smoke, drink and wear silk shirts and or some article of gold.
Wouldn't that (ex silk & gold ) have been also true for the bar regulars in NYC before the smoking ban?
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Old 01-03-2007, 12:11 PM   #15
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I smoked for 10 years. In college, my town went smokeless. Then got a job up in Seattle. Then Washington went smokeless.

I quit just before the change here in Wash. I was VERY pro-smoking in bars. Figured that smokers have lost most all their rights as it is (can pretty much only smoke in bars and bowling alleys), they should just let smoking stay along side drinking. But I'll have to say - I never realized as a smoker just how bad it smells in bars until I quit. My nose was numb to just how strong of a smell smoking creates.

Been off the sin-sticks for a year now, and have to agree. It's quite nice having non-smoking establishments.

I say the put smokers into a glass box like they do at the airports. As an old smoker - it wouldn't upset me at all - just as long as I didn't have to stand outside in the rain (20 feet min. from the entrance please!).
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Old 01-03-2007, 12:18 PM   #16
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Wouldn't that (ex silk & gold ) have been also true for the bar regulars in NYC before the smoking ban?
only in the outerboroughs (Brooklyn, Staten Island), New Jersey and Lawng Island. Manhattan has become so yuppy its reaching an all time high. A serious crime hasn't been reported since last year when this 27 year old I-banker had her vespa parked around the corner from where she left in Soho by some prankster.
just the other day I withdrew $20,000 from the bank to pay my auto insurance for the next six months and I waved all that cash at everyone on the street and some people told me to stop begging and panhandling.
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Old 01-03-2007, 12:19 PM   #17
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Medicare should not pay for your future treatment and private insurance rates should be raised for 'high risk' policy holders, much like driving.

Insurers already charge more for individual "high risk" (read smokers) policy holders. Group rates of course, generally do not. However, I'd be careful advocating selective underwriting of health coverage at the discretion of insurers based on perceived "high risks" , that's a slippery slope.

In defense of casinos, I'd say that if one considers the number of smokers in Vegas (where it seems like 1 in 3 persons is smoking at a given time, no matter where you go) the casinos have done a remarkable job through ventilation and air filtration to make the air quality as good as possible.
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Old 01-03-2007, 12:22 PM   #18
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Hi,

If Health concerns were the only factor, the answer is simple - make cigarettes illegal. But, the issue is much more complex than that.

The Tobacco issue is really one of Money, Power, Political Capital and Clout, not to mention tremendous hypocrisy.

The Governments (State and Federal) rely on some $26 B annually in Cigarette Taxes, while they grant $600 M in annual subsidies to Tobacco Growers.

Frankly, I'm surprised that Michael Moore hasn't reared his ugly head over the issue, must have put the $400M he got from Farenheit 9/11 into R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company stock.

And has anyone really calculated the cost of eliminating Cigarettes? Think of the lost Revenue. The number of retail and shipping jobs which would be eliminated, not to mention the glut of out-of-work Healthcare Workers who'd be bagging groceries as their only means of supporting their families? And, Motorsports? Bye-bye.

Then there's the hypocrisy of those here who are appalled at the Smoking issue, all the while condoning, and even counseling, others how to defeat their Emissions Controls and even run straight pipes out the back of their Boxsters (I wonder what the Health risks are from secondhand Exhaust?).

The one thing I'm pretty sure of, at least the last time I checked, was that this is a board dedicated to Boxster Ownership and Enthusiasm. I find no relevance to having this discussion here and think Rich should padlock this thread. There are any number of forums and blogs for people to air their views in a more appropriate setting. As always, just my humble $0.02...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

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Old 01-03-2007, 12:35 PM   #19
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......And has anyone really calculated the cost of eliminating Cigarettes?
Happy Motoring!... Jim'99
it depends how much of a value the law makers place on human life.
And for the pragmatic types, consider the lost/lower wages of people sitting in hospitals or on disability because they now can't walk half a block due to complications from emphysyma(sp?) and chronic bronchitis. To say nothing of the 'gateway' drug issue.

Its like the old saying "you can pay now or you can pay me later but in the end you will pay". We are all paying for that Tobacco revenue. Healthcare costs in this country are cippling this country's fiscal future and cigarette smoking and unhealthy diets are MAJOR factors in the most out of shape and banged up generation of Americans this nation has seen in a who knows how long.

but I agree this issue belongs in the Lounge is anywhere.
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Old 01-03-2007, 12:54 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Perfectlap
it depends how much of a value the law makers place on human life.
And for the pragmatic types, consider the lost/lower wages of people sitting in hospitals or on disability because they now can't walk half a block due to complications from emphysyma(sp?) and chronic bronchitis. To say nothing of the 'gateway' drug issue.

Its like the old saying "you can pay now or you can pay me later but in the end you will pay". We are all paying for that Tobacco revenue. Healthcare costs in this country are cippling this country's fiscal future and cigarette smoking and unhealthy diets are MAJOR factors in the most out of shape and banged up generation of Americans this nation has seen in a who knows how long.

but I agree this issue belongs in the Lounge is anywhere.
Hi,

Actually, a study by the Harvard Medical School last year concluded that Smokers do not over tax the Healthcare system. The report concluded that the average Smoker is less Health-conscious (and consequently makes fewer visits to a doctor or Healthcare institution), and when they eventually do, it's usually a short-lived Healthcare consumption because their disease is usually well-advanced by that time. They die sooner on average than non-smokers so they actually consume fewer Healthcare dollars than the average non-Smoker does over a much longer timeframe.

That Smokers increase the cost of Healthcare is a myth supported by the Anti-Smoking lobby as a scare tactic to promote their views.

I am a non-Smoker. I do not support Smoking. But, I have serious concerns about the way our institutions and legislators have used this explosive issue to advance their own causes and agenda and add further limits to personal choice. My last words on the subject...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

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