Car stuck at Shop

[wywyatt]

Howdy, I was hoping for some advice as I'm a younger car owner, and not sure what to do in my situation;

I recently purchased a 2000 986, and it's got a stalling issue once it gets up to temperature. There is a local sports car mechanic shop to me which has 200 reviews, and is rated 5 stars on google maps.

Feb 19th - took the car here and was told it would "probably be diagnosed tomorrow" (Friday, the 20th.).
For the next two weeks I'm told I'm, "in the queue".
March 6th - I am told they started working on it, and it's on the lift.
March 16th - No update, so I called again. I was told they're sorry it's been getting diagnosed for more than a week, and they'd call me back the next day with an update.

No update came, so I called first thing today. Different guy today gave me the run around- said it's hard because so many parts have changed, and that he's still working on it. The only changes are an aftermarket intake and new seats, so I'm not sure what he meant. Unless he means spark plug replacements and basic maintenance like that.

Each of these times I've had to call them, and ask for the information. They've not once called me. And they're nice people so I won't be naming names or pointing fingers yet... I'll admit, maybe I should have a few weeks back though.


so, TLDR; Car has been at a sports car shop for 4 weeks, with no update and terrible communication. And, all for a diagnostic, not even to get work done. What should I do? Is this normal for this kind of car? I'm feeling pretty bummed waiting this long for just a diagnostic.

[redpepperracing]

Unacceptable. It doesn't matter what kind of car, this is not right. I would go there in person to find out what they have done, where they are in the process and when it will be done. If you don't get good answers I'd be pushing to get the car back as it's clear they aren't serious about the issue.

[alexc0814]

Obviously they don’t respect you.. unless this is the only shop in the area I’d get my car back immediately and send it somewhere else

[Qingdao]

Normal. The world is motivated by money. No offence but you don't have any. The shop owner sees a car that has at least one problem and potentially thousands of underlying problems. He is running a business and wants to make that business successful. Jumping into a car thats a quarter of a century old is not a wise move.


Either he's a good mechanic and sees the other problems you don't or he's a good business man and sees the lack of viability in working on your car.



Just wait it out, thats my advice.


He's not charging you shop storage fees right???? If he was that would make him a jerk and not a good business man or good mechanic.








EDIT: oh I just read you put an intake on it. Yeah, get your car back he's not gonna touch it. Thats no shade at the mechanic, mechanics run from aftermarket parts on old cars.



EDIT Mark ii: Did the problem start when you swapped the intake?

[Marc_986]

4 weeks without any answer or good story? Walk away (drive if you can)..

If they tell you up front it will take a few weeks, no harm done and you knew what to expect. But they can't tell it will be next day each and every time and nothing happens. This isn't going to work out.

These are not really special cars in any way, so you should be able to take it to any shop, probably preferably one that works with European cars. Sure there are areas specific to Porsche, but in general it is just another car.

[997_986]

I’ve read that the fuel pump can have a heat-related issue that goes undetected during a cold start, but which, once the pump is warm, can cause the engine to start poorly or even stall. That’s just a long shot, though – the garage needs to check it thoroughly, otherwise you’re better off doing it yourself. Crankshaft sensors often cause problems when engine is warm as well. Tbc.

[boxwrench]

Originally Posted by 997_986

I’ve read that the fuel pump can have a heat-related issue that goes undetected during a cold start, but which, once the pump is warm, can cause the engine to start poorly or even stall. That’s just a long shot, though – the garage needs to check it thoroughly, otherwise you’re better off doing it yourself. Crankshaft sensors often cause problems when engine is warm as well. Tbc.

This is precisely what my fuel pump did before it died. Cold start, fine. Even slightly above ambient temperature, trouble starting.

Eventually I had all the fuel-trim codes for maximum enrichment, and terminally low fuel pressure when warm. Gassy smells, backfires, etc. But the pressure looked better or even acceptable (at first) when the pump was cool. Eventually the pump entered its death spiral while I had the pressure gauge hooked up... that was interesting.

[mikefocke]

What Porsche specific diagnostic machine/software are they using? Foreign experience is nice but Porsche experience is sometimes necessary. I judge a shop by the cars they are working on and the state of their tear down. The deeper the better,

https://www.pcarshops.com/ can find a Porsche experienced shop near you.

[Qingdao]

Dunno where you're located, but your avatar suggests GA. In Charleston, SC there is a shop called European Road and Racing.


I bought my "blue 986" from Karl over there. Karl Troy is a fantastic mechanic and business man. I know he won't shy away from a 986.


Regardless of google reviews ERR is the way to go. Might be a bit far for you though.

[wywyatt]

Thanks for all the comments.

Qingdao: No, he hadn’t mentioned storage fees, so I won’t be paying him. Would rather take him to civil court than pay him that at this point when it’s been near 5 weeks for a diagnosis.
The intake was put on by the previous owner, and I had got about 4 hours into driving it after purchase until I had this issue consistently.

997 986: The fuel pump could be it, I haven’t checked that. I thought it could be the CPS but my revs stutter and bounce as it shuts off, and again when I try to turn it back on. I believe when it’s the CPS it stays at 0 during the error.

Boxwrench, looks like all the more reason to look at it. Good to know, and thanks.

Mikefocke the legend!: I am not sure about specifics, but they do have a guy who they said was their Porsche specialist, and a vintage 912 in the shop when I dropped mine off. Seemed trustworthy at the time. Thanks for the website (both yours and the one you replied with.)

Cheers All. I’ll try and keep this updated incase anyone is interested in me fighting a shop.

[Rob175]

Your impressive.......I could NEVER be as patient as you.

[Rob175]

SO????....what was the "end result"? Inquiring readers want to know.

[wywyatt]

Ha, thanks for the concern.
I had a good talk a week ago with the shop owner, and it actually was up on one of their lifts. He let me know there was a lot modified on the car that I wasn't aware of. I'm impressed they even touched it;

The following was not stock; MAF, Fuel pressure regulator, some aos stuff, and the intake box. On top of this, the P.O. had gone in and straight-piped this car, deleted the muffler, hollowed out the cats and welded them shut and all I think.. P.O. had given this thing a beating.
The shop kind of made it clear that they had spent the first week of work ruling out the "cold air intake", which doesn't have a shield, so they thought it could be a hot air problem. Then they had to check over my exhaust and rule that out too, I guess O2 sensors(?). After that he's been going through several vacuum leaks, and replacing some o-rings along the way free of charge, and doing smoke tests and other stuff.

Communication has improved a bunch, probably because I mentioned I have some money set aside ready to fix the car.
Come Monday, I've got a buddy with a parts car, and he's got a stock airbox I'm going to give over to this mechanic to install and help get the car functioning better. Quoted rates aren't too bad and I'm enjoying the improved communication. And it's a bonus to be able to pick the parts and bring them in.

I'll update again after the airbox install.

[Rob175]

Not trying to be a wise-ass, but I assume you never had a "pre-purchase" inspection performed. Hindsight is always 20/20. So, my question is: had you received the same report with as much "non-stock" modifications identified ...would you have still purchased the car?

[wywyatt]

Easy answer: Nope.
But for the price I originally paid, it’s not a problem. Let’s say it was just around $2K.
Previous owner knew about the problems obviously, but for a car that was cosmetically in great shape and could run and “drive”, I’m happy. Let’s not comment on that anyways because I can’t change the past… But yes: I wouldn't do it again. Anywho.

I'm fairly certain it's the camshaft pads or solenoids, and I wish the shop would come to that conclusion (or any).
My camshaft deviation is around -8 on both banks, and I'm assuming when the car starts it's "tighter-regimen" loop once it gets to temperature, something chokes out because of the deviation. I could do simple things like spark plugs, but this was out of my league, hence me dropping it off.

[redpepperracing]

If your deviation is that far out, then yes, it's most likely the pads. Mine was around 7.2 out when I did them, and they were in terrible shape. The car ran fine for the most part, but would throw a CEL and then run rough until I cleared it. I drove it sporadically for the rest of the summer until I pulled the engine.

[wywyatt]

Went into the shop today to chat, and they were super. I was getting ready to pull out of the lot after talking to the front desk and the mechanic actually ran out to wave me down to be sure I could understand what took so long.
We talked about everything he had gone over, which was a lot more than the front desk guy could relay.
Car is running very rich, O2 sensors reading .7 volts on both banks and he can't figure out what's going on with it. He double checked the manifold or membrane in the new fuel regulator as well as the vacuum line going to it, and it's fine. He did more but I don't remember specifics.
He's going to do a fuel sample and get back to me and check fuel pressure and I think the pump.
We talked about the wear pads and he said it could be something to replace later, but it's not what's causing this problem, and he brought up that Porsche doesn't mark them out of spec until -9, which is when the car throws a code. He's pretty stumped as nothing is throwing a code, even when he ran it without a MAF before replacing the MAF. Not charging me, he had a spare laying around.
Well I gave him a stock airbox and he'll be putting that on, which will help with temperature performance in the future. Again not what's causing the problem, as even with the engine cover off, it still stalls, I just wanted to put that back to stock.

I'm stumped, but at least now I'm sure he's working on it. Sounds like an electrical gremlin or a bad computer if nothings throwing a code like it's supposed to. I'm not sure.

[wywyatt]

Question for y'all;
If the previous owner hollowed out the cats, they would have had to do a custom flash on the computer, right? To compensate for any CEL's or errors for the post-cat 02 sensors?

[997_986]

There are distance pieces for O2-Sensors on the market which can compensate such manipulations. They are tiny cats in principle. If nothing is there it might has a remap or similar. Or the bulb for the 'Check Engine' light has been removed ;-)

[wywyatt]

Ha, we did double check that at the shop actually, the bulb still works. and his scanners aren't picking up any codes, temporary or permanent.