Hey guys, I've gotten the green light from the Minister of Finance to purchase a 986 Boxster. There are a few requirements she has imposed on the purchase, most notably it must be an automatic, but the search is officially on.
Here's the issue. The car that gave me the green light was not only outside of our budget (which is around $12k) but was basically a perfect example of a 986. 75k miles, 1 owner, lots of records, great condition, everything you could ask for.
The cars in my area that are under $12k are in rough shape, and range from $6k-$7.5k with varying degrees of neglect. Mileage ranges from 100k-150k, paint could use some work, suspension creaks, tops either are slow or completely missing the motors, the list goes on.
I've wanted a Boxster for a long time now, and I was always planning on doing my own maintenance. I know the general school of thought is to buy the best possible example of a car that you can afford, but what about a car that needs some work to get a deal?
Let's say I buy a car for $6k that needs $6k in parts plus my own labor in order to get it to a condition I would find acceptable. Assuming I have the time and inclination to do that work, is that a reasonable track to wander down?
The reason I am going down this thought experiment is because I recently got back a PPI on a car at the top of our budget that ended up needing a lot more work than we wanted to deal with at that price point. But, if the car were half the price it would have made sense, especially if I could do most of the work myself. I kind of assume any Boxster at this price point will need work, so why not go for the most affordable car and try to price the work into the theoretical total price?
Am I setting myself up for a lot of headaches and an empty wallet or is there some logic to this train of thought?
It depends.
If you can do your own maintenance, that will make a 986 much more affordable. Changing a water pump or AOS can cost about $150 to $250 for parts and a few hours on a weekend or either can cost around $1,000 at a shop. That said, some people have taken on some major repairs and found that it was beyond their capability or ruined a good engine.
With 986s being 20+ years old at this point, buy the best maintained one that you can afford. How well it has been cared for is more important that how many miles it has on it. Keep having PPIs done on cars you are serious about.
Consider a few flaws that you are willing to accept: Worn brake pads and rotors are usually a fairly easy thing to replace. Worn out or old tires give you the opportunity to get the tires of your choice. A complete professional paint job can cost over $5,000, but a bumper re-spray or some PDR could be under $500 (in my locality).
__________________ I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
... Am I setting myself up for a lot of headaches and an empty wallet or is there some logic to this train of thought?
Totally logical in my opinion. I've bought 3 Boxsters. Never had a PPI done.
The first one, a 2000 base, I had a 10 minute road test and bought it for $6500 CAN. I have put a lot of time into it plus about $3000 in parts and another $1000 in maintenance. I now runs great and is a joy to drive.
The second one, another 2000 base, supposedly had an overheating problem and had been sitting for 2 years. It wasn't licensed so I could not even drive it. I got it running and bought it for $5000, put a lot of time and about $1300 in parts into it and sold it to a friend for a slight profit (I calculated my labor as a learning experience).
The third one, a 2000 S, was a roller with a seized engine, but the seller told me that "it didn't need anything (other than the engine)". Ya, right. I paid $6000, (put a lot of time and) about $1800 for repairs and maintenance on the car and $5400 for a used engine and necessary maintenance on the engine. A little over $13000 all in, which is a bit more than I had planned on. But it is an S with the SportDesign package interior, which includes Sports seats.
None of these cars had any documentation with them. I think I was a bit lucky but Boxsters are tough little cars as long as they get a minimum of attention.
I have a lot of respect for 78F350's opinions, he may be from Oklahoma, but as far as Boxsters are concerned I think that I'm more of a cowboy than he is
__________________
Grant
Arctic Silver 2000 Boxster S - bought with a broken engine, back on the road with the engine replaced
Green 2000 Boxster 5-speed and 1978 928 auto
1987 924S 5-speed (Sold) - Blue 2000 Boxster 5 spd (Sold)
Last edited by elgyqc; 09-06-2023 at 08:19 PM.
Reason: added info
I have a lot of respect for 78F350's opinions, he may be from Oklahoma, but as far as Boxsters are concerned I think that I'm more of a cowboy than he is
Personally I have never had a PPI done or paid more than $5,000 for any of the twenty or so 986s I've bought. I pay cash and enjoy taking the risk. I would not advise a stranger to do what I have done.
'Flood Car" before I bought it:
After spending some time on it:
__________________ I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
Do you have a write-up I can read on this car? Doing some light off-roading is (probably) in my boxster's future (mostly forest access roads and the like) and I'd love to learn more about what does and doesn't work.
Do you have a write-up I can read on this car? Doing some light off-roading is (probably) in my boxster's future (mostly forest access roads and the like) and I'd love to learn more about what does and doesn't work.
The info for that car is spread around a bit. It has evolved quite a lot over the years. If I have a quiet night at work tonight or tomorrow, I'll post some of the details. Pics https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjAButx
and if I was local I'd try a $2k offer on this considering parts value: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/3037764579865666/? *Parting out a 986 can take a lot of time and effort, but if you need parts for yourself a parts car is a great option.
__________________ I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
I've seen this one and it is my front-runner of "fix it up" options. Here is the list of things that I took note of when I took a look.
Creaking suspension
Strange noise on startup
Both side mirror motors do not work
The windshield is cracked and needs replacing
One of the headlight sprayers is missing
The convertible motor is slow and sounds tired. May need replacing soon
The front bumper seems misaligned
The plastic undertray on the front bumper is partially disconnected and scrapes on the ground occasionally, particularly when reversing
The rear bumper is cracked
The driver's seat is torn and needs repair or replacing
The clear coat is peeling, there are hail dents and lots of scratches and scrapes. Just about every panel has some kind of damage
The battery was disconnected when we arrived, no idea what that means
Bottle of antifreeze in the trunk
The plastic trim by the windshield has hail damage and needs replacing
The clear coat is peeling on all four wheels
All of the Porsche crest center caps are damaged in some way
Most of the lug nuts are rusty
Rubber gaskets around headlights look dry-rotted
Two tire brands: Michelin Pilot Sport All Season and Cooper RS3-G1, all from 2021
And I'm probably missing other stuff.
When I drove it the car seemed fine, but I remember either the gas or brake had a lot of dead space at the beginning. It shifted through all the gears fine and seemed to drive well. I neglected to test the wipers and turn signals, and probably a few other things. There are no reliable records of any kind of service done. Also, the seat was a massive pain to adjust.
With the exception of the strange startup noise and windshield, these mostly sound like things I could theoretically take care of myself or just live with. Safelight will install a new windshield for $520, but the strange startup noise is what is giving me pause. It could be nothing, or it could be a serious concern. The bodywork makes it a 20-foot car at best and it's probably more money to get all of that repaired than the car would be worth with half the miles.
Honestly, this is the car that I'm debating making an offer on, I'm just not sure what kind of an offer would make it worth all of the known and unknown work. Beyond that, it just seems like a lot of little things and even though I feel like I've done a decent job of searching for all the replacement parts I would need from eBay, I'm sure I'm forgetting things, and the dollar signs are quickly adding up.
I already own the book "101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster" and between that, the Youtube channel "Help Me DIY", and this forum it's giving me confidence that any problem I might encounter I will at least have a guide to get me through, but this would still be my first project car and it's intimidating.
I'd like to think that I'm reasonably mechanically minded, but I lack experience doing anything beyond oil changes, air filters, and swapping between winter and summer tires. I'd love to believe that I can tackle anything that gets thrown at me, but I also want to be realistic with my abilities. Tutorials are one thing, but they are no substitution for experience.
So yeah, hope that wall of text didn't put you to sleep, lol.
Personally I have never had a PPI done or paid more than $5,000 for any of the twenty or so 986s I've bought. I pay cash and enjoy taking the risk. I would not advise a stranger to do what I have done.
OK, I apologize, I am NOT more of a cowboy than you and my cowboy hat is off to you.
I did not read through all of your links, in what I read I was struck by the comments of AAZCD... that guy knows his stuff.
Seriously, my comments were not meant as advice, rather as my experience as related to the question of buying a "questionable" Boxster. The way I look at it buying a 986 is like buying stocks or crypto currency, consider the possibility that the money is lost... and if it isn't so much the better!
__________________
Grant
Arctic Silver 2000 Boxster S - bought with a broken engine, back on the road with the engine replaced
Green 2000 Boxster 5-speed and 1978 928 auto
1987 924S 5-speed (Sold) - Blue 2000 Boxster 5 spd (Sold)
OK, I apologize, I am NOT more of a cowboy than you and my cowboy hat is off to you.
I did not read through all of your links, in what I read I was struck by the comments of AAZCD... that guy knows his stuff. ...
No apology necessary, I enjoy following along with your work on the 2000 S project. I just wanted to emphasize that what we do might be inappropriate for for the average first-time 986 buyer.
That AAZCD guy has obviously learned from experiencing a lot of mistakes.
__________________ I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
Your review and elgyqc's summary are great.
Questions:
What does your wife think about that car? You can drive it pretty much as-is, but it is going to take either a lot of time or a lot of money to make it as nice as a $12K car. Is she going to be on board with that? Will she be okay with it as-is for a while?
The start up noise; Is it a squeal from the starter (starter lube/rebuild)? Electric motor sound like a vacuum cleaner (SAI blower)? Tapping/rattle sound (could be acceptable or a major concern)?
The front bumper and frunk lid may be simply installed poorly or it could have had an accident. I'd want a better look at that or detail it in the PPI.
Me? I would make a low cash offer and throw some parts at it that I already have on the shelf. If I wanted some cash back from it, I'd sell the Litronic headlights and put a used set of Halogens in and delete the headlight washers. The headlight washers on most of these cars I've seen are like that or have already been replaced. Bad design.
__________________ I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
There's been so much good advice here already, and I don't really have much to add.... but that's never stopped me before.
In truth, I just read the thread about the forum being dead and all the reasons proposed as being responsible for its demise. I find I'm moved to participate, rather than skim.
So my $0.02, whittled down to a few words as I can, since I'm typing on my phone;
Forget the PPI. Your awareness (as illustrated by your list) is at a pretty high level. Depending on the individual mechanic, a PPI will either confirm what you already know or nitpick the car to its ever lasting death. Neither are useful.
Here's my take: unless you are prepared to do even something major as a DIY, you shouldn't be buying a >20 yr-old car. It sounds to me like you're up for it, and recognize the work you'll need to put into it. (Kudos)
Mechanical items are all relatively easy, and comparatively inexpensive. Paint and body on the other hand, tend to be more expensive, unless it's your specialty. So find a car that (mostly) looks the way you want it to. Minor work is fine. But you'd better love the color.
The only mechanical item on your list that gives me pause is the noise at start-up.
Here's what I would do: as 78F350 said, low cash offer. But include in negotiation that you'll leave a good faith deposit while you await the expedited results from Blackstone labs, for the analysis on the oil you're going to send them. That'll tell you if the problem is interior to the motor.
Otherwise, buy the car that largely LOOKS how you want it to.
I've bought 78 cars/ trucks in my day. From '34 chevy's to 2013 Maseratis to a 2008 and a 2016 Ferrari, including not a single PPI. Only really been disappointed once. Look each car over the best you can, then pull the trigger.
As Maytag mentions below, the start up sound is the only worrysome in my opinion.
Is the noice like rattle or like screech or something else?
- if like a rattle, the chains / tensioners / chain ramps are a good candidate to cause this: engine out and change the parts. Fine to do as a DYI job and don't have to split the crank case nor take the heads off.
- if like scheech, then good candidate is that the starter motor pendix wheel return is not workign well: very easy DYI to change the starter motor OR take the starter out, open it, clean and relube and reinstall.
I have done both above on my 2001 Boxster and I believe that you can as well.
I've wanted a Boxster for a long time now, and I was always planning on doing my own maintenance. I know the general school of thought is to buy the best possible example of a car that you can afford, but what about a car that needs some work to get a deal?
Let's say I buy a car for $6k that needs $6k in parts plus my own labor in order to get it to a condition I would find acceptable. Assuming I have the time and inclination to do that work, is that a reasonable track to wander down?
The reason I am going down this thought experiment is because I recently got back a PPI on a car at the top of our budget that ended up needing a lot more work than we wanted to deal with at that price point. But, if the car were half the price it would have made sense, especially if I could do most of the work myself. I kind of assume any Boxster at this price point will need work, so why not go for the most affordable car and try to price the work into the theoretical total price?
Am I setting myself up for a lot of headaches and an empty wallet or is there some logic to this train of thought?
I picked up my 2000 986 base for $5000 from Craigslist. I was the first caller (and then the seller was flooded with calls). I wasted no time getting over there to take a look at it.The seller was an older gentleman who found getting in and out more and more difficult. It had 155,000 miles on the clock, but it was the seller's baby, and he was meticulous about its care, substantiated by a thick folder containing all maintenance receipts. So I wasn't put off by the mileage. Everything functioned on the car and it ran and drove like a new one. The Arctic Silver paint, convertible top, and interior were in decent shape. I pounced on the deal like a pit bull on a butt steak, acing a horde of other buyers.
I figured I'd have to deal with various random issues as they arose. I do all my own maintenance on my cars. I've rebuilt engines, so I'm no stranger to wrenching on cars. Here's what I've done to my bargain 986 so far:
1. Replaced water pump, $113
2. Replaced regeneration valve, $47
3. Replaced heater core, $109 (not OEM, but identical)
4. Flushed coolant system and replaced coolant, $68 (genuine Porsche brand, because... well, just because)
5. Changed oil with Mobil 1, Bosch filter, magnetic drain plug, $74
6. Replaced windshield wipers, Bosch: $34
7. Replaced Toyo tires with a set of Continental ExtremeContact DWS06 Plus, $805 (including mounting and balancing, which I left to Discount Tires)
If Porsche Beaverton had taken care of everything above, I would now have only one arm and one leg left. We're talking thousands in parts and labor. Doing my own wrenching is the only way I can justify having a car like this. Besides, most of the time it's enjoyable.
So I encourage you to seek out a well-maintained 986 and then do your own maintenance on it. If you decide to go that route, the service manual is a must. Also, YouTube is indispensable, loaded with how-tos.
Good luck!
__________________
2000 986 base
Arctic Silver/black
2.7 liter
5-speed manual
Last edited by LoneWolfGal; 09-11-2023 at 09:36 AM.
There is so much valuable advice in this thread, thank you all so very much. I shared this thread with my partner and she commented that everyone here has been super nice and constructive so hats off to the 986 community.
It seems like there are two primary schools of thought being presented here, but with some overlap. From where I stand the overlap seems to be that the car needs to have been used regularly and recently, and more maintenance is always better. But that seems to be where the paths diverge.
On one side, I see people pulling me towards being patient and waiting to a prime example of a Boxster to show up that basically maxes out my budget. Essentially going down the path of "buy the best example you can afford"
On the other side, I'm hearing suggestions that I just kind of lowball people and roll the dice, so long as there is nothing obviously outside of my capability.
I'll call these two camps Best Example and poobox Casino moving forward.
Here is a quick summary of those in favor of the Best Example camp: 78F350 and LoneWolfGal seem to be presenting arguments for buying the best car I can find. Suggesting PPIs, service histories, and a good record of maintenance and regular use.
Here is a quick summary of those in favor of the poobox Casino: elgyqc, maytag, and 78F350 seem to be arguing that buying these 20+ year old sports cars is inherently a gamble, particularly at my specified price point, and that I should embrace the project car nature of where I'm shopping and try to get something for as low a cost as possible so I have more money leftover to repair what needs repairing, though still being mindful of buying a project within my mechanical capabilities.
The eagle eyed among you will notice that 78F350 is in both camps, this is mostly because he seems to give advise by the adage of "do as I say, not as I do" because by the looks of it, they only buy cars in the poobox Casino category.
Does anyone have any objections to how I've tallied their votes?
Last edited by Nickanator8; 09-12-2023 at 08:19 AM.
Reason: I guess I have to call things pooboxes because we are all children?
There is so much valuable advice in this thread, thank you all so very much. I shared this thread with my partner and she commented that everyone here has been super nice and constructive so hats off to the 986 community.
It seems like there are two primary schools of thought being presented here, but with some overlap. From where I stand the overlap seems to be that the car needs to have been used regularly and recently, and more maintenance is always better. But that seems to be where the paths diverge.
On one side, I see people pulling me towards being patient and waiting to a prime example of a Boxster to show up that basically maxes out my budget. Essentially going down the path of "buy the best example you can afford"
On the other side, I'm hearing suggestions that I just kind of lowball people and roll the dice, so long as there is nothing obviously outside of my capability.
I'll call these two camps Best Example and poobox Casino moving forward.
Here is a quick summary of those in favor of the Best Example camp: 78F350 and LoneWolfGal seem to be presenting arguments for buying the best car I can find. Suggesting PPIs, service histories, and a good record of maintenance and regular use.
Here is a quick summary of those in favor of the poobox Casino: elgyqc, maytag, and 78F350 seem to be arguing that buying these 20+ year old sports cars is inherently a gamble, particularly at my specified price point, and that I should embrace the project car nature of where I'm shopping and try to get something for as low a cost as possible so I have more money leftover to repair what needs repairing, though still being mindful of buying a project within my mechanical capabilities.
The eagle eyed among you will notice that 78F350 is in both camps, this is mostly because he seems to give advise by the adage of "do as I say, not as I do" because by the looks of it, they only buy cars in the poobox Casino category.
Does anyone have any objections to how I've tallied their votes?
'yer gonna go far.
(that's a "O Brother Where Art Thou" movie reference, haha)
I'd say you've summarized nicely. the only thing you lack is to note that Camp A is wrong, and Camp B is right. haha.
Seriously though; most of my life I've been about the "poobox" as you call it. I call it selective bargain hunting.
For instance:
the first Audi TT roadster I bought had a book value of a little over $11k, but they couldn't sell it because it lacked a clutch and nobody could take it for a test drive. I gave $1700 for it, and put in a $700 clutch.
My first Jaguar was an '03 X-Type (booked at about $12k at the time). I paid $3500 for it, because they said it needed a t-case. I bought said t-case on ebay for $800, but promptly resold it for $750 when I crawled-under and discovered a broken bracket had simply misaligned the input shaft.
What I'm getting at is this: I've been driving nice cars that others wouldn't call "poo boxes". They were nice cars. They simply required a willingness to get elbow-deep into them.
This is especially possible in the euro-car market, where people fear the "high shop-labor rates". While they might jump at a domestic or Asian "mechanic special", they shy away from the Euros. this is why these cars plummet in value so much more aggressively than their Asian or Domestic counterparts.
Lastly; I wouldn't be too patient. A man who waits too long may find the window has closed. Look around at what's available. If none of them are right, then keep waiting. But don't wait if you're looking at the car that you like. JUST MAKE SURE IT LOOKS GOOD.
The eagle eyed among you will notice that 78F350 is in both camps, this is mostly because he seems to give advise by the adage of "do as I say, not as I do" ...
Does anyone have any objections to how I've tallied their votes?
Yes and No.
...and how about an epic Fly-n-Drive adventure? Center on Las Vegas, NV with a 500 mile search radius. Pick three Boxsters within a couple hours of each other, then buy a plane ticket, and roll the dice.
Can you live with purple and chrome wheels?
__________________ I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
...and how about an epic Fly-n-Drive adventure? Center on Las Vegas, NV with a 500 mile search radius. Pick three Boxsters within a couple hours of each other, then buy a plane ticket, and roll the dice.
Your list looks good. I'd prioritize water pump and oil change. The engine mount is probably worn out and it is easier to access a couple of the water pump bolts with the mount removed, so might as well do both together. (Don't support the engine with a jack in the center of the oil pan.)
Does the coolant tank plastic look yellow? -aged plastic ready to crack.
Spark plugs: When I replace them, I replace the spark plug tubes if there is any sign of an oil leak. Clean and inspect the coils for cracks and replace the rubber coil boots if they look degraded.
The vacuum tubing under the intake is going to be brittle. Chances are that it will crack or come apart when you do the AOS. Be gentle or plan to replace it.
What you have written so far shows that you have more awareness than most first time 986 buyers. Everything you need to do to your car has been documented here many times and Youtube videos are great for seeing where other people have made mistakes. Don't hesitate to ask stupid questions.
Parts Car, car parts
Honda Del Sol(s)
"Hers"
My Original '99
The 78 F350
This
That
The S 2.5
Other
Boxster
haha. 
love it! 
Hybrid Mode
