Do I need a bigger amp?

[clickman]

I replaced my CDR220 with a new double DIN head unit. Now, with the top down (of course) it seems like I've always got the volume close to the top end; for quieter music there's not enough with the volume at max.

Is there something in a setup that I'm missing or is the Porsche amp just too small? The new HU is actually pushing out more watts than the 220...

Head unit: Kenwood DDX5706S DDIN
Amp: 6x40W from 996 cabrio
Dash speakers: Hertz ECX100.5 4" 4ohm coax
Rear speakers: retrofit kit of four 3.5" 4ohm coax
Door speakers: original 2ohms

[Bush Pilot]

I wouldn’t be surprised if your amp isnt working at all. Porsche is a luxury brand and comes with a powerful stereo.

[Starter986]

You're pushing 40W per channel. I fiind that underwhelming. Dismiss that Porsche amp.

I'm pushing 100W x 4 (2F/2R) and a 150W powered sub. Splendid.

Buy once. Cry once.

Good luck witth your choice.

[KevinH1990]

Here's a link to a thread that I used and added to while upgrading my door speakers. http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-general-discussions/79558-door-speaker-recommendations.html (Edit, it looks like you were the thread starter.) A few of the posts made specific recommendations for after-market amps.

Some of the posts on the thread touch on the issues you face. I drive my car in three configurations: (a) Top down; (b) With soft top up; and (c) With the hard top on. I found that my set up provides good sound with the hard top on, acceptable sound with the soft top up, and poor sound with the top down and at speeds over 25 mph. I expect that adding more power might help overcome the noise inherent with top-down driving, but it isn't worth the effort and expense to me.

I think the answer to your question depends on your goals and your budget. Upgrading the speakers and adding an aftermarket amp for the doors didn't cost much in time or money and met my expectations for sound quality in a sports car. Like you, my head unit provides more power than the Porsche amp I'm using, but I didn't have time to rewire my system to make a change. That would be a relatively inexpensive option and it may be worth consideration. I also highly recommend that you upgrade the door speakers. The upgrade I did provided a noticeable improvement in low frequency sound quality.

Good luck with your project.

[Hasdrubal]

I thought amps were usually advertised by RMS power, where aftermarket head units were usually advertised by peak power- that Kenwood has 22 watts RMS, so is probably less powerful than the factory amp.

Thanks to Washington weather I don't do a lot of driving with the top down, but I feel like I have enough volume with 50w RMS and a powered sub to be satsified. No factory amp though, so I'm getting the full spectrum through dash and door speakers, both sets of speakers replaced with infinity reference, nothing too fancy.

[clickman]

Originally Posted by Bush Pilot

I wouldn’t be surprised if your amp isnt working at all. Porsche is a luxury brand and comes with a powerful stereo.

Thanks for your response. The signal from the head unit is from the pre-amplified outputs, so I don’t think I’d hear anything if the amp wasn’t working at all. Not sure about the “powerful stereo” part 😉

[clickman]

Originally Posted by Starter986

You're pushing 40W per channel. I fiind that underwhelming. Dismiss that Porsche amp.

I'm pushing 100W x 4 (2F/2R) and a 150W powered sub. Splendid.

Thanks for your response. Buy once cry once- love that.
Is the 40w from the Porsche amp RMS or peak? Based on what I’m hearing it’s likely peak. In either case underwhelming is a good word for it.
A car audio place is trying to sell me a Kenwood 5 channel with 75w to each speaker front and back and 500w (!) to the 2 ohm door “woofers”. I can’t find anything on what power the door speakers are able to take. He tells me the speakers will be protected by amp and HU settings. Not so sure about that.

[clickman]

Kevin thanks for your response. I’ll take a look at that thread again. I do like the sound stage with door speakers providing the bass so I’d prefer to keep it the way it was set up originally.

One thing, the power comparison I was making was between the old and new head units, not between the new HU and Porsche amp. Probably irrelevant but leads me to another question: I think the original CDR220 was providing more volume coupled with the Porsche amp than I’m getting with the new Kenwood HU. I wonder if there was amplification from both the 220 HU and the amp (cumulativelyw), while with the new HU the amp is fed unamplified sound from the pre-outs so the amp is doing all the work (poorly).

[clickman]

Originally Posted by Hasdrubal

I thought amps were usually advertised by RMS power, where aftermarket head units were usually advertised by peak power- that Kenwood has 22 watts RMS, so is probably less powerful than the factory amp.

Thanks to Washington weather I don't do a lot of driving with the top down, but I feel like I have enough volume with 50w RMS and a powered sub to be satsified. No factory amp though, so I'm getting the full spectrum through dash and door speakers, both sets of speakers replaced with infinity reference, nothing too fancy.

I don’t know if the 40w the Porsche amp is supposed to be pushing is RMS or peak. By the lack of volume I’d bet it’s peak.

[Hasdrubal]

An amp can definitely be set so that it doesn't blow out the speakers, but that means restricting the power- there's not much point in getting a huge amp if you have to turn it way down. I don't know what the factory speakers can handle either, but with 4" in the dash and 5.25" in the doors, it won't be a lot unless you spend some serious money on aftermarket speakers.

I used Infinity Reference speakers for both dash and doors, and the 4" can handle 35w RMS, the 5.25" can handle 45w RMS. Their high end 5.25" can handle 60w. That doesn't mean there's no point in having an amp that can push more power, a bigger amp can run those lower levels without distortion where a lesser amp might overheat or sound terrible at maximum.

Unless your existing speakers have already been replaced from the 22 year old originals, they're likely blown out anyway- the foam or rubber that connects the cone to the frame was torn and disintegrating on mine. I'd take replacing the door and dash speakers as a first step, and then assess what you want out of an amp after you do that. Pick replacements that can handle more power if you're leaning towards a big amp.

[clickman]

Originally Posted by Starter986

I'm pushing 100W x 4 (2F/2R) and a 150W powered sub. Splendid.

What amp do you have?

[Bush Pilot]

Don’t want to be a Debbie Downer but those of you making lots of volume should do some research on hearing loss due to loud noises. I wish someone had educated me when I was young. Now I’m walking around with hearing aides at 60 yrs old. Is it really worth that?

[redpepperracing]

Originally Posted by Bush Pilot

Don’t want to be a Debbie Downer but those of you making lots of volume should do some research on hearing loss due to loud noises. I wish someone had educated me when I was young. Now I’m walking around with hearing aides at 60 yrs old. Is it really worth that?

Seconded. I'm 53, no hearing aids yet, but tinnitus for sure, and probably headed towards hearing aids. Protect your hearing people!

[clickman]

Guys thanks for the warning but I’m fully aware of that as I have aids too. Can’t wear them with the top down due to whistling from the airflow, All I’m trying to do is get the volume in the Boxster to where I can hear it without distortion.

[Hasdrubal]

Ha, I just realized I missed the part in the first post where the dash speakers are already replaced. I'd be replacing the door speakers next, and then a question for anyone who might know-

Does the factory amp have a low pass filter built in for the doors, or is that in the head unit? I would think it should be in the amp, if it is, you'd get the full spectrum out of the doors by swapping to an aftermarket amp.

You still run into the problem of the small door speaker size, I think you'd be wasting your money getting an amp that produces anything over 50w RMS. I think if you get a 6 channel amp that puts out around 50w, and then run the full signal through aftermarket speakers, you'd get more volume and better sound than getting a more powerful amp and lowering the output to match the factory speakers.

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by clickman

Thanks for your response. Buy once cry once- love that.
Is the 40w from the Porsche amp RMS or peak? Based on what I’m hearing it’s likely peak. In either case underwhelming is a good word for it.
A car audio place is trying to sell me a Kenwood 5 channel with 75w to each speaker front and back and 500w (!) to the 2 ohm door “woofers”. I can’t find anything on what power the door speakers are able to take. He tells me the speakers will be protected by amp and HU settings. Not so sure about that.

The Porsche amp... I don't know. When I bought my 89 it had (and still has) some Alpine speakers on the dash. They sound great, and haave no problem receivving the 100W RMW the aftermarket aamp is pushng... peer channel (400/4). The amp is a nice one... brand name and, since I'm familiar with stereos... it has cred.

I usuaally don't care how many watts the head unit is pushing... but I do want the pre-amp outs with some Vs behind it... because I'm using the amp for the real power.

There are members upon this foru who swear by the P aamp and such... but I just want great top up/down sound, and don't want to FA with optic cables... compatibility issues, etc. Just want to install the stereo... connect the wires... aand hear sound.

Get a nice head unit... get a decent amp... get decent speakers... aand take it to a shop to have everything installed. Keep it simple.

[dghii]

An amp does not 'push' power (watts) to speakers, it provides what ever power is needed based on volume and music dynamics up to its rated output.

I doubt anyone is listening to their car stereo as it delivers max power, be it 50 , 75 or 100 watts per speaker. I was always amazed how loud an output of 1 watt was through efficient home speakers....you could talk over it but at 10 watts, you could not.

To the OP, I used an aftermarket head unit with factory amp on my 2000Box S. It was sufficiently loud and I didn't experience the what you described. I do know that my BT volume levels were lower than FM or CD but no so low I couldn't hear it at a reasonable level.

[KevinH1990]

Originally Posted by clickman

One thing, the power comparison I was making was between the old and new head units, not between the new HU and Porsche amp. Probably irrelevant but leads me to another question: I think the original CDR220 was providing more volume coupled with the Porsche amp than I’m getting with the new Kenwood HU. I wonder if there was amplification from both the 220 HU and the amp (cumulativelyw), while with the new HU the amp is fed unamplified sound from the pre-outs so the amp is doing all the work (poorly).

If your car came with the amp in the frunk and door woofers, I believe that the amp did all the work powering the speakers. I base this opinion on my experience wiring the rear speakers I installed in the rear storage compartment. I initially powered them from the CDR 220 head unit and the amplified outputs were unused when I installed the speakers. If I understand correctly, the 6X40 amp that I later installed had circuitry that powered the front and rear speakers and then took the average of the front and rear ouputs and supplied that signal to the door woofers after passing it through a filter that removed the high frequencies.

My current setup uses an amp which is connected to the subwoofer outputs from my head unit. This drives the larger woofers I installed in the doors. This provides improved low-frequency sound.

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by dghii

An amp does not 'push' power (watts) to speakers, it provides what ever power is needed based on volume and music dynamics up to its rated output.

I doubt anyone is listening to their car stereo as it delivers max power, be it 50 , 75 or 100 watts per speaker. I was always amazed how loud an output of 1 watt was through efficient home speakers....you could talk over it but at 10 watts, you could not.

To the OP, I used an aftermarket head unit with factory amp on my 2000Box S. It was sufficiently loud and I didn't experience the what you described. I do know that my BT volume levels were lower than FM or CD but no so low I couldn't hear it at a reasonable level.

lol, the **************** it doesn't. You say the same thing in the rest of your sentence.

****************ing semantics, lol.

Have a nice day.

[Hasdrubal]

I really don't like the idea that the door speakers are responsible for bass- they're too small to make good subwoofers, and if 'woofer' here means that they're lacking the high frequency part of the signal instead of high and mid, then that's space and power that could be better used as a full range speaker. Although they're still not good at producing low frequency sound, so a powered sub under the passenger seat works pretty well for me to fill in the bottom end.

Been thinking about doing a fiberglass footwell sub box, though. Right now I have a Kenwood SW11 and while it does produce good volume, it seems a little harsh when I start to turn it up.