Base 98 suspension upgrades

[chromecarz00]

I'm doing my clutch soon and had the idea to upgrade the sway bar, bushings, and drop links while I'm in there. Have read a number of threads advising everything from 987, 986s, M030, and more for sways.

It's mostly a street/canyon carver but would like to start autox in the future. 116k miles, so most things are due for replacement and seems like a good time to upgrade.

Any thoughts on which sway to go for? Poly bushings for the bar a good idea?

[elav]

I did 986S swaybars - here is the parts list - CB-Racing, 986 Suspension Info

[chromecarz00]

Originally Posted by elav

I did 986S swaybars - here is the parts list - CB-Racing, 986 Suspension Info

This is fantastic, thanks. You note that On the Boxster the anti sway bars are the same from USA to ROW - does this mean that the base will be the same as base, and S will be the same as S?

If I was to go from my base to an upgraded one and wanted to get poly bushings to match, I would just have to pull the correct size from this chart, yes? Any other parts needed (special drop links or standard will do?)

[JayG]

You should download a PET, the Porsche parts guide. It has all the different versions for different model year and models. Makes it reasonable easy to figure out what parts work

[chromecarz00]

Originally Posted by JayG

You should download a PET, the Porsche parts guide. It has all the different versions for different model year and models. Makes it reasonable easy to figure out what parts work

Any idea where to get this?

One question - if I upgrade to a 987 cayman bar, do I need new drop links/bushings, or will the ones that come with the 987 bar work on the base 986? Thinking it all should work as Tarrett has the same, but wanted to confirm.

Thanks,

[pilot4fn]

Originally Posted by chromecarz00

Any idea where to get this?

One question - if I upgrade to a 987 cayman bar, do I need new drop links/bushings, or will the ones that come with the 987 bar work on the base 986? Thinking it all should work as Tarrett has the same, but wanted to confirm.

Thanks,

From this page you can select the Porsche model from the drop down menu and then download the parts atalog (PET):
https://www.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesandservices/classic/genuineparts/originalpartscatalogue/

[986tate]

The stock suspension on the S and 03-04 base is REALLY good. You could could build a really nice setup for 98 base with used sway bars and springs from those cars, and new struts.

[ike84]

Fwiw, I wouldn't spend $ on new sway bars until you get competitive and identify a specific aspect of the setup that needs tweaking.

If you're looking to correct understeer (common complaint with this car) for canyon carving, just go up to 225s up front. (Larger front sway will likely worsen your understeer, which I doubt is what you want. That again depends a lot on the rest of your setup though)

If you want to loosen the rear end, disconnect the rear sway bar and tie it out of the way for the day.

There are lots more scenarios and suggestions that don't require a different sway bar. In addition, it's hard to predict exactly what effect a different sway will have and is something that needs to be vetted it through trial and error most of the time.

The point is to set up the suspension around your driving, and the stock sways are pretty good for nearly all types of driving.

In terms of bushings, absolutely replace them. You'd be surprised how this may change the handling. I used energy suspension PU bushings on mine and they're fantastic (and a third the price of oem).

Also, if you're struts are shot, you can consider a set of coilovers. Even the inexpensive ones are better than the 20 year old oems. This will give you a ton of freedom to dial in your suspension in a controlled, predicable manner.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

[chromecarz00]

Originally Posted by ike84

Fwiw, I wouldn't spend $ on new sway bars until you get competitive and identify a specific aspect of the setup that needs tweaking.

If you're looking to correct understeer (common complaint with this car) for canyon carving, just go up to 225s up front. (Larger front sway will likely worsen your understeer, which I doubt is what you want. That again depends a lot on the rest of your setup though)

If you want to loosen the rear end, disconnect the rear sway bar and tie it out of the way for the day.

There are lots more scenarios and suggestions that don't require a different sway bar. In addition, it's hard to predict exactly what effect a different sway will have and is something that needs to be vetted it through trial and error most of the time.

The point is to set up the suspension around your driving, and the stock sways are pretty good for nearly all types of driving.

In terms of bushings, absolutely replace them. You'd be surprised how this may change the handling. I used energy suspension PU bushings on mine and they're fantastic (and a third the price of oem).

Also, if you're struts are shot, you can consider a set of coilovers. Even the inexpensive ones are better than the 20 year old oems. This will give you a ton of freedom to dial in your suspension in a controlled, predicable manner.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

Awesome response, thanks

For me, this started with wanting to refresh my whole tired suspension - all the clattering, crashes and bangs were starting to get on my nerves. Part of that for me was the sway bushings and the drop links, I figured if I'm upgrading everything, might as well?

I have 19s on the car that have pretty good grip, 265 in the back and I believe 235 in the front. I'm pretty happy with the setup, but a bit of additional rear bias isnt the worst thing. I also figured that setting the car up for when I start auto-x is a good thing.

I actually bought the 987 sway bar/bushing/endlink as a used assembly off of eBay. I figured if I'm replacing, I may as well upgrade and try to get to the m030.

From what I read, 987 has the same stiffness as m030.

When you say loosen the rear end, do you mean remove oversteer?

Tia

[ike84]

When I said "loosen the rear end", I meant inducing a slide.

On soft springs, removal of the rear sway bar can (depending on driving style) result much more drastic loading of the outside rear tire and unloading of the inside rear, especially during turn in and sustained tail braking. Accelerating out of that position, especially on small street tires, can feel like the rear end is loose (from the roll) or even see the rear end slide out on you (not necessarily causing oversteer as it is simply testing get limits of your tires)

The converse can be true also though. If running stiff springs and big tires, dropping the bar will likely result in the rear lagging into the turn and promote understeer.

The opposite is true with a larger rear bar. Big bar with stiff springs and you may wheel skip your way into the dirt by not loading the outside rear wheel enough. This again depends on braking and acceleration relative to the turn geometry.

This is why I cautioned against "upgrading" the sway bar. It's a very tricky thing to dial in and bigger isn't always better. If you go through old posts, you'll find several mentions of reduced handling with larger bars (especially in the rear).

I will say though that this is the whole premise of adjustable bars. Just like with coilovers, you have the ability to fine tune depending on your setup (and even how the car wants to run that particular weekend on that specific track). When you get into track events and start dialing in suspension setups, that will be the real "upgrade".

If I had to guess - installing a bigger front bar on your setup will likely result in some understeer compared to where your are now. Since you have 235s up front, the result will likely be very similar to the OEM setup on front 205s.

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[Gilles]

Originally Posted by ike84

When you get into track events and start dialing in suspension setups, that will be the real "upgrade".

Yes, it is one step at the time, the first mod I did to my old 987CS (suspension wise), was installing the H&R sway bars followed by the KW-V3 coilovers.

One time prior to attend a POC event at Willow Springs I over adjusted the compression and rebound settings and after the first session I mentioned to Hergeshimer (Eric and Mark were my mentors), that my car was acting very strange and Mark simply said "go back and unscrew what you screwed up last night" went back to the recommended KW settings and everything was back to normal..

[seningen]

[QUOTE=ike84;650019]When I said "loosen the rear end", I meant inducing a slide.

On soft springs, removal of the rear sway bar can (depending on driving style) result much more drastic loading of the outside rear tire and unloading of the inside rear, especially during turn in and sustained tail braking. Accelerating out of that position, especially on small street tires, can feel like the rear end is loose (from the roll) or even see the rear end slide out on you (not necessarily causing oversteer as it is simply testing get limits of your tires)

[\QUOTE]

When we remove the rear sway bar in our race car that has just H&R springs and some wedges, but otherwise stock (aside from camber) suspension -- it induces significant pushing.

So softening the rear makes understeer more significant.

[Mutha66]

If you are interested, I have a set of ROW M030 springs (986 2.5 manual) that I purchased from Carnewal in September. My intent was to replace the standard springs but I ended up selling the car in November.