Soft top experiment - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

ike84 · 03-18-2022, 05:59 AM

My back window is shot. I took the top off and down to a canvas guy and he said that he wouldn't be able to do it without removing it from the frame. I spoke to a few other canvas guys and got the same response.

So.... In usual fashion, I'm gonna farm engineer it. I considered sewing in a new one by hand but I'm pretty sure it's not gonna turn out well. Instead I've decided to go with industrial adhesives.

My plan is to use strataglass for the new window and fix it to the top with two products. The first is 3m double sided vhb, between the top and the strataglass. Then, on the inside "seam", use a layer of 3m extreme seal tape. I may also run a bead of e6000 around the outside seam but I'm gonna avoid this if possible.

I figure the worst thing is I ruin a soft top that's already ruined. Hopefully though the 3m products are up to the task.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

jrj3rd · 03-18-2022, 08:43 AM

Removing the top from the frame is not too involved and allows you to have a new window sewn in properly... I replaced the top on mine in 1 1/2 hours start to finish, working alone.

Jgkram · 03-18-2022, 11:55 AM

I too have replaced the top on mine and it really is not as hard as it is made out to be. That was two years ago and it still looks great and I get compliments on how tight and wrinkle free it is.

There is a youtube out there of a guy re-stitching his window back to the canvas by hand. I believe he left it in the frame. Definitely didn't appear to be something I would want to tackle and it was a little wavy in the end. But, it can be done. Good luck which ever way you choose to go.

ike84 · 03-18-2022, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrj3rd

Removing the top from the frame is not too involved and allows you to have a new window sewn in properly... I replaced the top on mine in 1 1/2 hours start to finish, working alone.

Wait a minute, you removed and reinstalled the top to the frame in 90 minutes? All the writeups I've seen on that put it at an 8-12 hr job. How did you do it so fast?

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

ike84 · 03-18-2022, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jgkram

I too have replaced the top on mine and it really is not as hard as it is made out to be. That was two years ago and it still looks great and I get compliments on how tight and wrinkle free it is.

There is a youtube out there of a guy re-stitching his window back to the canvas by hand. I believe he left it in the frame. Definitely didn't appear to be something I would want to tackle and it was a little wavy in the end. But, it can be done. Good luck which ever way you choose to go.

I've seen that video and a thread on here about seeing in a new one. I'm pretty handy with a needle and thread but it just looks so painful lol. I will definitely keep updated on the process. The adhesives should be here next week. The real test will be over the next few months.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

Starter986 · 03-19-2022, 04:12 AM

When mine gets to the point where it is unsightly I'll have canvas glued/adhesive to the outside... a "blackout", if you will... no rear window/vinyl... and install behind the rear bumper cover the camera that will be attached/transmitted to the rear-view mirror.

That's what I'm considering.

ike84 · 03-19-2022, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starter986

When mine gets to the point where it is unsightly I'll have canvas glued/adhesive to the outside... a "blackout", if you will... no rear window/vinyl... and install behind the rear bumper cover the camera that will be attached/transmitted to the rear-view mirror.

That's what I'm considering.

I thought about that too. I didn't know if it's legal to not have a back window, not that it matters too much. I love the idea of the rear camera and Android "mirror" though. You could mount it low on the dash like old school.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

Stl-986 · 03-19-2022, 07:56 AM

He said the frame, which is only held in by a couple bolts on each side. It's really a 15 minute job to get the top out of the car and that is with just 1 person doing it. Less if 2 people are doing it.

dghii · 03-19-2022, 08:40 AM

buy the one that was for sale last week for $300 for top and frame. Easy R/R.

Starter986 · 03-20-2022, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ike84

I thought about that too. I didn't know if it's legal to not have a back window, not that it matters too much. I love the idea of the rear camera and Android "mirror" though. You could mount it low on the dash like old school.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

I belive that in Cali that you've either the side mirrors or the interior rear-view mirror.

My big downer with the vinyl window is that sun beating through warming up the interior. Now... you may ask, "Why wouldn't you have the top down in such great weather?" Well, when it's 110 to 120 out... it's quite the drag.

Speaking of drag... it's usually in Palm Springs when I have the top up. Further, the top up keeps out the bears.

itsnotanova · 03-20-2022, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stl-986

He said the frame, which is only held in by a couple bolts on each side. It's really a 15 minute job to get the top out of the car and that is with just 1 person doing it. Less if 2 people are doing it.

Correct! Each side has three bolts and some early cars have one screw too. Remove the clam and pop off the tension cables and control arm and the whole thing comes out quickly. I HIGHLY recommend removing the top if you're going to sew in a new window. Not only does it make it easier it will hopefully turn out looking better. Most tops with replacement windows look like Stevie Wonder sewed them. I recommend also putting something down so your lines look straight. Chalk,tape?

ike84 · 03-30-2022, 03:38 PM

Finished (almost) product. Vhb tape between strataglass and top, 3m extreme seal tape over the overlap. There's a bit of slack in it now but I think after I get it mounted back in the car then it will stretch out nicely. I am going to apply a bead of e6000 inside of the vhb tape once I get it mounted again because I wasn't happy with how well the vhb stuck, but that extremely seal tape is some serious stuff and hopefully will keep it watertight. I will post more pics once it's back in the car.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

Jgkram · 04-01-2022, 05:16 PM

Well done! I want to see the final install. Even if it’s not perfect, my hats off to you for the attempt. It’ll be nice to see how well the adhesives hold up.

ike84 · 04-01-2022, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jgkram

Well done! I want to see the final install. Even if it’s not perfect, my hats off to you for the attempt. It’ll be nice to see how well the adhesives hold up.

Thanks! I've got a million small projects going on right now and the top will go back on last, so it might be a week or 2 before I can post final results. I will definitely keep you posted though.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

ike84 · 05-11-2022, 10:06 PM

Here's the final product. It got filthy while rebuilding a window (house this time, not automotive lol) so I need to clean it up. I think it turned out ok, I wish I could pull a bit of slack out of the bottom corner passenger side. That's the only downside of this method, once it's down there's really no adjusting. Maybe sewing the 4 corners with temporary stay stitches before actually doing all the taping would help. Hind sight is always 20/20

. But hey, for$100 in materials and an hour of labor I'll take it!

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

ike84 · 05-11-2022, 10:10 PM

Btw, I would like to make a suggestion about the top removal process. Removing the B pillar trims in the beginning makes it WAY easier to access the 3 bolts and only takes a minute per side. Also, disconnect the transmission arms from the top at the ball socket joint only - do not alter their position on the slider. It's not the hardest thing to line it back up if you did this but it will cost you an extra 15 min or so that's unnecessary.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

tommy583 · 05-12-2022, 04:32 AM

100% agree about taking of the trim pieces. Man you are brave, I hope the tape keeps the water out.

ike84 · 05-12-2022, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommy583

100% agree about taking of the trim pieces. Man you are brave, I hope the tape keeps the water out.

I always say it's better to be dumb than brave... The last time I uttered those words I doubted a cover block into a hundred pieces which caused me to go flying off the side of my truck bed. As I lagged with quite the thud I heard my middle kid exclaim "uhhh, mommy, where did Daddy just go?"

I was gonna leave it in the sun for a few days to "bake" and then once the strataglass had settled into it's final place, put a nice thick bread of e6000 in the outside gap between the top fabric and the glass, which will actually give me 3 separate layers of again and sealant, all of which are strongly advertised as waterproof (not water resistant).

I will say this though - I've put the top fully up and down about a dozen times so far and nothing has broken loose yet. These adhesives may actually live up to 3M's claims.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

ike84 · 06-24-2022, 07:10 PM

Update - FAILURE!

after a dozen or so up and downs of the top and an equal number of 90+ F days, the double sided adhesive has separated where the window did not meet the top perfectly flat.

I guess it's on to a new top.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

elgyqc · 06-25-2022, 03:01 AM

As a shade tree mechanic myself I was disappointed to see that your experiment failed. Personally I have limited confidence in chemical bonding.

My first experiment at changing the window was an attempt to glue the new plastic in place. I cut the old window out, leaving about an inch all the way around then glued the new piece in using the inch of overlap and VLB glue. Unfortunately the glue would not adhere to the old plastic (it worked on attaching 2 pieces of the new material together).

So I changed to mechanical attachment. I sewed the new material in place by hand, with the roof in the car using the same 1 inch band I had tried to glue to. Basically I placed the new window, with a sealant between the two layers and attached it with a few rivets in the middle at the top and bottom and the two sides, just to hold it in place. I then used a soldering gun with a small tip to make holes through the two layers of plastic, pulling it tight as I worked my way around. I then sewed the two pieces together by passing the thread through the holes. I did this alone so it took some time. Once the sewing finished I sealed the joints and the holes made for the thread (I think I used the VLB for this), then ran a piece of insulation foam around the perimeter to hide the sewing and glue.

Despited the ripples (which almost disappeared with time) I counted this as a success. I could see through the window and it was waterproof. Unfortunately after two years the window was again opaque. I am going to have to do this again with a better material.