LN Ceramic bearing

[howdy]

Does anyone use the LN ceramic double row IMS bearing anymore? Is that sort of old school technology that people have moved on from?. I notice on Facebook, many people in the IMS bearing group, especially in the last few months are using the EPS roller bearing.

I never see posted anywhere somebody putting in the ceramic bearing from LN. Sounds like when it comes to LN, it's either the solution or nothing at this point in time.

I would like to replace mine with the stock Porsche bearing but cannot find it here in the United States. Can get it shipped from Germany, but still have to have the right tool to install it because of the internal spring design and getting it into the shaft.

[elgyqc]

Sourcing for the bearing is mentioned in this thread. Also discussion on installing new bearing. I have not completed the installation myself because I was waiting for a flange and am now away on vacation... will get back to it in April.
http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/81929-my-ims-bearing-replacement-thread.html

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by howdy

Does anyone use the LN ceramic double row IMS bearing anymore? Is that sort of old school technology that people have moved on from?. I notice on Facebook, many people in the IMS bearing group, especially in the last few months are using the EPS roller bearing.

I never see posted anywhere somebody putting in the ceramic bearing from LN. Sounds like when it comes to LN, it's either the solution or nothing at this point in time.

I would like to replace mine with the stock Porsche bearing but cannot find it here in the United States. Can get it shipped from Germany, but still have to have the right tool to install it because of the internal spring design and getting it into the shaft.

LN Dual row, single row, and single row Pro's still being installed, but people have recognized the long-term value of going with the Solution's "once and done" approach, making it very popular. Personally, never cared for either the roller bearing concept, and in particular how EPS gets oil to it.

[PaulE]

I had the LN Single Row Pro, the ceramic dual row replacement for the OEM single row used in my 2003 S. It was installed in my car, that I bought new, around 42,000 miles and failed around 77,500 miles. I did the frequent oil changes, filter inspections, magnetic drain plug and it still failed. My rebuilt engine has the LN IMS Solution, which, in retrospect, I should have gotten the first time around. LN has a sister company, RND, and they have a roller bearing for a price-point replacement, but it is a periodic replacement item. I recommend installing the IMS Solution if you're going to do something, and be done for good.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by howdy

Does anyone use the LN ceramic double row IMS bearing anymore? Is that sort of old school technology that people have moved on from?. I notice on Facebook, many people in the IMS bearing group, especially in the last few months are using the EPS roller bearing.

I never see posted anywhere somebody putting in the ceramic bearing from LN. Sounds like when it comes to LN, it's either the solution or nothing at this point in time.

I would like to replace mine with the stock Porsche bearing but cannot find it here in the United States. Can get it shipped from Germany, but still have to have the right tool to install it because of the internal spring design and getting it into the shaft.

why for the love of Pete would you want to use a part that has known failures?
Especially when there are several better choices available

[howdy]

Originally Posted by JayG

why for the love of Pete would you want to use a part that has known failures?
Especially when there are several better choices available

Taking "the solution" out of the equation, what better choices are there? The LN retrofit has had failures as most have seen, so its certainly not perfect. Have seen one EPS failure up to this point and many people are to installing them. Not a fan of the Pelican/LN single row bearing and having to use spacers. What are you other better choices that you speak of? DOF? MB?

The stock bearing has held up fine for 21 years and 85,000 miles. I just removed it and that was probably premature considering the condition it was in. I would not be scared to put another one in there with the dust seals removed and let it run.

[howdy]

Originally Posted by PaulE

I had the LN Single Row Pro, the ceramic dual row replacement for the OEM single row used in my 2003 S. It was installed in my car, that I bought new, around 42,000 miles and failed around 77,500 miles. I did the frequent oil changes, filter inspections, magnetic drain plug and it still failed. My rebuilt engine has the LN IMS Solution, which, in retrospect, I should have gotten the first time around. LN has a sister company, RND, and they have a roller bearing for a price-point replacement, but it is a periodic replacement item. I recommend installing the IMS Solution if you're going to do something, and be done for good.

I agree the Solution is probably the best long term play. I don't see myself in this car any longer than 1 year from now, so from a financial standpoint I don't think a $1900 part is the best choice in this situation. I have just seen RND pop up in searches recently and its interesting to hear they are associated with LN. LN has not been a fan of the roller bearing, saying they looked at that approach a number of years ago and discounted it as not being the direction they wanted to pursue. I wonder if the popularity of the roller bearing in the last few years has prompted them to jump into that segment of the market to capture some of those sales. And why under a sister company name and not the recognized LN brand.

[howdy]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

LN Dual row, single row, and single row Pro's still being installed, but people have recognized the long-term value of going with the Solution's "once and done" approach, making it very popular. Personally, never cared for either the roller bearing concept, and in particular how EPS gets oil to it.

I don't care for the EPS oiling concept either. If I ever did that bearing I would not bother with the punch and the oil shaft. Install it and let it go. EPS says that the oil pump modification is not necessary for their bearing to work. The roller bearing as a replacement sure seems to be picking up steam. There are at least 4 companies out there right now offering their version of a roller bearing replacement. They are either taking advantage of this latest popularity and the naivety of the consumer or there is something to it as a viable option. Time will tell.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by howdy

I agree the Solution is probably the best long term play. I don't see myself in this car any longer than 1 year from now, so from a financial standpoint I don't think a $1900 part is the best choice in this situation. I have just seen RND pop up in searches recently and its interesting to hear they are associated with LN. LN has not been a fan of the roller bearing, saying they looked at that approach a number of years ago and discounted it as not being the direction they wanted to pursue. I wonder if the popularity of the roller bearing in the last few years has prompted them to jump into that segment of the market to capture some of those sales. And why under a sister company name and not the recognized LN brand.

Simple: LN evaluated the roller bearing several years ago, saw no advantages for it over the ceramic hybrid; but as RND wanted something unique for their "off the shelf" rebuilds, they went with the less expensive roller bearing, which LN supplies to them. LN has also been the supplier of the cheapo steel ball bearing IMS retrofit kits that Pelican sells.

[howdy]

Originally Posted by elgyqc

Sourcing for the bearing is mentioned in this thread. Also discussion on installing new bearing. I have not completed the installation myself because I was waiting for a flange and am now away on vacation... will get back to it in April.
http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/81929-my-ims-bearing-replacement-thread.html

Good thread. That certainly looks like the stock dual row IMS and is NSK which happens to be the bearing that I removed. I suppose you will just us your internal spring clip/retainer from your old bearing. I was told by the place in Germany that they use two people to install this bearing. One to work two small screw drivers to compress the spring , while the other person slowly taps the bearing in. He mentioned he knew of someone that 3d printed a tool that would compress the spring while installing it. The third option would be to purchase the LN tool that is made for installing this kind of bearing. The third option would require deep pockets as it is not cheap.

[elgyqc]

Originally Posted by howdy

Good thread. That certainly looks like the stock dual row IMS and is NSK which happens to be the bearing that I removed. I suppose you will just us your internal spring clip/retainer from your old bearing. I was told by the place in Germany that they use two people to install this bearing. One to work two small screw drivers to compress the spring , while the other person slowly taps the bearing in. He mentioned he knew of someone that 3d printed a tool that would compress the spring while installing it. The third option would be to purchase the LN tool that is made for installing this kind of bearing. The third option would require deep pockets as it is not cheap.

I love IMSB discussions!
I plan to reuse the old spring clip. For the installation I was thinking of using a metal collar (that I have already made from a piece of exhaust pipe) held in place by a tie wrap that will hold the spring down and the collar will slide back as the bearing is inserted.
I am also pondering using a "pusher" rather than a hammer to install the bearing. I think a frame could be made that attaches to the block and then permits a threaded rod to slowly push the bearing into place. Doing this would allow one person to do it, pausing the operation to work the clip into place. I am on vacation so have not worked out the details of how this would work.
I made a tool to remove the wheel hubs with a puller rather than a slide hammer when I changed all my wheel bearings. A puller or pusher is much less agressive than a hammer.

[Homeoboxter]

I was able to tap the bearing myself while pressing the circlip into the groove but the IMS was out of the engine. I kept the bearing in the freezer overnight and heated up the bore with a heat gun so it required little force.

[howdy]

Originally Posted by elgyqc

I love IMSB discussions!
I plan to reuse the old spring clip. For the installation I was thinking of using a metal collar (that I have already made from a piece of exhaust pipe) held in place by a tie wrap that will hold the spring down and the collar will slide back as the bearing is inserted.
I am also pondering using a "pusher" rather than a hammer to install the bearing. I think a frame could be made that attaches to the block and then permits a threaded rod to slowly push the bearing into place. Doing this would allow one person to do it, pausing the operation to work the clip into place. I am on vacation so have not worked out the details of how this would work.
I made a tool to remove the wheel hubs with a puller rather than a slide hammer when I changed all my wheel bearings. A puller or pusher is much less agressive than a hammer.

Without the right tool it's almost like needing a second set of hands. If you can come up with a tool to replicate a second person that would do the trick. Or something that works like a ring compressor when installing pistons in an engine.

[howdy]

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter

I was able to tap the bearing myself while pressing the circlip into the groove but the IMS was out of the engine. I kept the bearing in the freezer overnight and heated up the bore with a heat gun so it required little force.

That's one way to tackle it.