Not a good idea to put a jack under the oil pan

[jaykay]

Thanks for the info. True, very good point.......I need to search up my llifting eye.

As I recall that thing is very thin with an M8 going into the case

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by jaykay

Thanks for the info. True, very good point.......I need to search up my llifting eye.

As I recall that thing is very thin with an M8 going into the case

But is there for the purpose; to date, I have never heard of anyone having a problem with it.

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Engine support bars are not overly expensive, even Horror Freight sells one.

JFP, this is my 'beaner' engine support bar sourced at Home Depot

PS: you adjust the height by turning the nut on the hook

[JFP in PA]

It gets the job done.

[10/10ths]

…..People will invest multiple thousands of dollars on a Porsche, but they won’t take five minutes to read the owner’s manual that the Porsche engineers who built the car, put in the car.

But they WILL spend an hour on their computer to read advice from idiots on the internet.

We are doomed.

[rick3000]

deleted

78F350, thank you you providing a source.

[78F350]

This part of the manual refers to lifting the vehicle. Can we infer?



In the past I have used a long engine hoist, a supported 2x4 with a chain, and raised/lowered the engine and transmission on a padded board with an ATV jack. My $99 1,100 lb engine support bar is now due to arrive on Tuesday.

[ike84]

Ahhh yes, it's been a bit since we've had an "all hail stuttgart" string going.

JFP, you do this for a living. I fully expect that your engine removal procedure involves mounting the support bar, raising the car on a lift, and dropping the engine low enough to mount the m96 standoff and attaching it directly to an engine stand. There is zero risk there and the last thing you as a professional would ever do is take a risk with a customers (or your own) car.

If you don't have access to these tools though, that doesn't mean you can not safely do the job.

I'll say again that doing something dumb (like jacking the car by the oil pan) will end poorly.

But analyzing a situation and proceeding differently than what the original engineers had done does not make someone an idiot, and owning/working on a Porsche does not require large sums of money to be done right (10, haven't we already had this discussion before?)

For the record - I have manipulated an m96 with a jack using an appropriate sized piece of plywood for several projects (engine mount, tranny mounts, air box removal, injector swap) without harm to the pan. Also, the motor can sit flush on concrete to work on it without collapsing the pan.

Don't knock people for making due with what they have. Necessity is the mother of creation.

God forbid a porsche engineer ever find themselves needing to take a **************** in the woods without toilet paper. Whatever would they do...

Btw - I have trained under and worked with some true mental giants, but I will tell you that some of the most intelligent people I have ever interacted with are farmers who never graduated high school. So, if you think that this way of thinking makes me an "unreliable" source of information, I would challenge you to rethink that position. Everyone has something they can teach, and everyone has something they can learn.

Sorry, that last point is a purely philosophical one but to me is very important.


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[elgyqc]

As the original poster I feel the need to add a few comments.

1) I am surprised at the response… guess it was a worthwhile thread to post.

2) A couple of people suggested that one should read the Owner’s Manual…
I wasted some time looking at the owners manual that I have and, as I expected, found NOTHING on supporting the engine… which is what this thread is about.

3) Since I have my cracked oil pan sitting on a table I have spent some more time inspecting it and make the following observations.

a) The the lowest points of the pan are the two front to back ribs on either side of the circular depression for the oil pickup and also the part of the casting around the drain hole.



I coloured one of the ribs red so it would stand out in the next photo.



So even if a plank is between a jack and the pan the weight will be on the ribs and the raised part around the drain hole. My pan does have cracks around the drain hole and at least one of the ribs, even if the worst ones are in the center around the oil pickup depression.
I marked the cracks in black... these are cracks that I can feel with a fingernail.





So just putting a plank or piece of plywood will not prevent the weight being concentrated in the middle of the thin casting.

My solution for future engine removal will be to make a square wooden frame that fits around periphery of the oil pan, under the bolts, which will accept the weight from the vertical walls of the sump.

For supporting the engine for engine mount removal there are areas of the crankcase in front of and behind the sump that are about an inch thick that should do very well, of course with a piece of wood on the jack.






I could use my engine support bar but that means going to all the bother of removing the engine cover and I would not be comfortable working under the car with the engine weight on that little bracket... even if I have hung the engine on it in the past (when I wasn't under the car) and even if Porsche recommends it. But that's just me.

b) Most of us, after the removal of the engine, put it on a dolly of some sort… where the same problem will occur. A carpet or rubber layer on the dolly (or lift table) will help distribute the load but it has to be soft and deep enough to allow the central part of the pan to sink in about a quarter of an inch before the load will be distributed to the rest of the surface area of the pan. The wooden frame that I plan on making will overcome this problem also.

c) I have an engine support bar (that I made myself), but using it to lower and raise the engine would be a way too unwieldy with the equipment I have, so I will continue to use my transmission jack with the wooden frame (that has yet to be created).

[elgyqc]

Originally Posted by ike84

...
Btw - I have trained under and worked with some true mental giants, but I will tell you that some of the most intelligent people I have ever interacted with are farmers who never graduated high school. So, if you think that this way of thinking makes me an "unreliable" source of information, I would challenge you to rethink that position. Everyone has something they can teach, and everyone has something they can learn.

Sorry, that last point is a purely philosophical one but to me is very important. ...

Totally agree with you, I was raised on a farm and that training allows me to do what I do now... even though sometimes the way I do things may seem (or be) somewhat bizarre. And sometimes I screw up and learn something new!

[ike84]

Originally Posted by elgyqc

Totally agree with you, I was raised on a farm and that training allows me to do what I do now... even though sometimes the way I do things may seem (or be) somewhat bizarre. And sometimes I screw up and learn something new!

Haha yes! I never question the madness until I can understand the method which justifies it. Thats how we learn.

I've been to lectures that discuss the definition of an "expert" and my favorite always will be the person who has already learned all the mistakes and knows not to repeat them again.

That's the beauty of professional training, as well as this forum, is to the ability to admit our own and learn from each other's successes as well as mistakes.

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