2005 987S 20,000 mile report

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by dbth

Sell your car.

Yes, I agree. However, if they check the warranty claims log at Porsche, who will buy it?

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

I agree that Driver Input can contribute to or mitigate a weak or poor design. In the case of the former, often trouble can be avoided altogether, in the latter, one may be able to forestall or delay, but usually not eliminate the possibility that the machinery will eventually fail.

Some people Drive em like they Stole em, as a group, these people are more likely to have more failures and higher repair and maintenance costs. Some drive them like the proverbial Little Old Lady, these people may also experience relatively higher failure rates and maintenance costs, but usually to different components than the 1st group, because they aren't working the machine hard enough. Then there is the group which drives the car as it was meant to be driven, but respects the machinery (usually with some greater understanding of how it all works). These people usually have the fewest problems and lowest maintenance costs. One is not better than the other, but the consequences of their driving practices often differ tremendously.

We see this in racing too. There are drivers out there who suffer more DNFs due to mechanical failures than others. And those who have a reputation of respecting the machine and usually have a higher % of Finishes.

I'm on the fence on this one, and in fact wouldn't be surprised if there's a little of both at play here. It would seem that the Dealer does as well. The odds of getting 2 bad transmissions, in the same car, are probably astronomical. One thing which favors this is the low mileage at which both units failed (mechanical devices usually die in either early life or old age. In the former, bad assembly or design can be the culprit. In the latter, the device simply wears out - reaches it's designed lifespan) But, driver input can also lead to early failure, so this too cannot be eliminated. In fact, should the 3rd Tranny begin experiencing issues, this factor probably jumps to the forefront.

Redlining a car, or exceeding it, isn't the only way to shorten it's lifespan or that of the transmission. Merely the practice of keeping one's hand on the stick while driving and inadvertently applying pressure can lead to early wear to the balk rings or synchros. Shifting early or late can also have detrimental effects. And there are many others too.

I am making no judgement so far as Eslai's style of driving one way or the other. I don't think there's sufficient evidence to do so. But, neither do I think there's sufficient evidence to rule it out as a contributing factor either, especially when we're seeing a need for Brake Service a little early too.

As I said earlier, I suspect that there's probably a little of both going on, but this is sheer speculation. In other words, if someone were to give me this as a hypothetical, with an unknown driver, based on what we know, this would be my first, but not necessarily my last, hunch. So I'm not slamming Eslai here in any way. We already know this car ain't the most reliable on the Planet...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[eslai]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Redlining a car, or exceeding it, isn't the only way to shorten it's lifespan or that of the transmission. Merely the practice of keeping one's hand on the stick while driving and inadvertently applying pressure can lead to early wear to the balk rings or synchros. Shifting early or late can also have detrimental effects. And there are many others too.

Thanks for the objective statements, Jim.

The problem is, I'm not doing anything that I consider "classic tranny killers". I'm not engine braking--I'm matching revs. I'm not leaning on the shifter like a gangster--I return my hand to the wheel after every shift. I'm not dropping the clutch from 6000 RPM--I have never launched the car. I'm not speed shifting, power shifting or otherwise driving like a hooligan.

The only thing I do that is at all a "drive it like you stole it" thing, is I use the entire power band. I would expect that to offer up less-than-stellar engine life, but nothing else and certainly not within 20,000 miles.

The fact that they WERE willing to replace both transmissions indicates to me that they DON'T have a leg to stand on. The fact that I've gone through two trannies tells me that the car had issues.

As for the brakes, I fully expected to have less-than-optimum brake life, as I am hard on the brakes--I have a daily commute that involves a fairly steeply-graded offramp that chews up brakes. That, and I brake a little hard due to my time on race tracks. I don't consider brakes a huge expenditure, so I don't treat them kindly.

Transmissions though, I'm like a mother with a newborn!

[Perfectlap]

changing cars would surely tell you if you're driving style is the problem. If you have no problems in the new car then there you have it. They didn't exactly completely overhaul the 06 tranny did they??
Me suspects it just 1st year redesign woes. Maybe bad build quality/procedures and things are internally not as well put together. A reason why people bite their nails and wait until the 2nd year.
It sounds to me that the Porsche not being so rare in SoCal has lead Porsche reps to becoming very stupid, from showroom sales people to service managers.
They need to hire more folks from Lexus, and other more customer valued co's.
Ditch the Mazda/Toyota attitude. I got plenty of that when I had my Miata and POS corolla. I think they hire their sales people from electronic stores and their service reps from Jiffy Lube. Sometimes I felt like tape recording my interactions and sending the tape to everyone from the franchise owner to the CEO.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by eslai

Thanks for the objective statements, Jim.

The problem is, I'm not doing anything that I consider "classic tranny killers". I'm not engine braking--I'm matching revs. I'm not leaning on the shifter like a gangster--I return my hand to the wheel after every shift. I'm not dropping the clutch from 6000 RPM--I have never launched the car. I'm not speed shifting, power shifting or otherwise driving like a hooligan.

The only thing I do that is at all a "drive it like you stole it" thing, is I use the entire power band. I would expect that to offer up less-than-stellar engine life, but nothing else and certainly not within 20,000 miles.

The fact that they WERE willing to replace both transmissions indicates to me that they DON'T have a leg to stand on. The fact that I've gone through two trannies tells me that the car had issues.

As for the brakes, I fully expected to have less-than-optimum brake life, as I am hard on the brakes--I have a daily commute that involves a fairly steeply-graded offramp that chews up brakes. That, and I brake a little hard due to my time on race tracks. I don't consider brakes a huge expenditure, so I don't treat them kindly.

Transmissions though, I'm like a mother with a newborn!

Hi,

All sounds OK to me, I was just stating the obvious that in any failure, especially a premature one, driver involvement cannot be automatically ruled out.

It's a b*tch going through the things you are, and I hope you're seeing the end of it. But, with luck like yours, no offense, I don't wanna be sitting in the seat next to yours on the airplane...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Brucelee]

I do think this 05 trans is from a new manufacturer. That alone could be the issue.

Yes, Porsche could learn TONS from Lexus.

Yeah...I'd say Eslai is a little hard on his brakes!!

[eslai]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

It's a b*tch going through the things you are, and I hope you're seeing the end of it. But, with luck like yours, no offense, I don't wanna be sitting in the seat next to yours on the airplane...

I hope so too, as I really can't imagine continuing problems like this. I can't really sell the car now and buy an '07--I'd be losing too much money in the process. Best hope is to get an extended warranty out of Porsche or something. I love the car; I hate the car.

And yeah, you wouldn't want to sit next to me on the plane. I would fall asleep and drool on you. Not only would you crash, but you'd crash with another man's drool on you and that's just not right!

bmussati: Nice picture! I haven't managed to get these rotors to light up though.

[RandallNeighbour]

Eslai, did you have the car put on a PST tool
and printouts created before you took delivery
of it to see if the 3 over-rev's were there before you
took possession of the car?

One has to wonder if someone at the factory test track,
or a complete moron of a salesman took it out for a
"spirited" drive before you got to the dealership.
Or, if it was a lot car you bought, who decided to test
drive it and stand on it like they REALLY stole it.

Bmussati: Please, oh please res-down your attached
pix to a normal web page size! They're funny, but the
side to side scrolling to read the thread posts is killing me!

[longislander1]

I came late to this thread, but I have to tell you that when I hear this stuff, it makes me think I've bought my last Porsche. This company is ignoring inherent defects and riding on its past reputation.

I always compare my Porsche experience with that of my Mazda Tribute, not in terms of driving experience -- which would be ridiculous -- but in terms of ownership experience. I drive the hell out of the Mazda and will probably run it into the ground. It's a pretty peppy and sharp-handling SUV (zoom-zoom) and I take full advantage of that. At 47K miles, it's performed flawlessly and has no rattles. At around 6K miles, I'm already getting noises in the Porsche. The transmission works great, as opposed to the horror story on this thread. At around 30K, the dealer resurfaced -- not replaced -- the rotors. And, by the way, the dealer service with the Mazda has been excellent, as opposed to my outlandish four-day ordeal when I took my 987S in for its one-year service. Oh, and I might add that the dealer "could not duplicate" the annoying right rear squeak that my 987S has had since new. I, too, will probably need a shock replacement down the line -- hopefully under warranty.

I just use this example -- as well as the numerous stories I've read on here and elsewhere about low-mileage Boxster mechanical failures -- to point out that Porsche has something of a charade going here, in terms of mechanical defects and erratic dealer service. It's pathetic when the ownership experience is better on a car one-third the price of the 987S.

Believe me, when it's time to trade the 987S, I'll be shopping around. No Porsche Kool-Aid for me.