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-   -   Variocam thoughts and questions (http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78167)

Homeoboxter 07-02-2020 10:20 AM

Variocam thoughts and questions
 
Ok, so I did my homework and I have read through a a lot of threads and articles on this variocam fail topic and I learnt a few things that were new to me but maybe obvious for most of you all. I still have some questions that I thought are worth to share. First, what I learnt: 1) The actuators are all the same in all 5 chain engines, from 2.5 to 3.4, or at least they have the same part number. 2) The two units are different though, variocam 1-3 and 4-6 move to the opposite direction when they actuate, and it seems only actuator 1-3 has this large green O- ring that has a tendency to disintegrate. At least in all the threads I`ve looked at the first sign was the appearance of green rubber O-ring fragments. Actuator 4-6 has no such large green O-ring shown on the few pictures available on the web.

I noticed that when the actuator is not filled with oil the piston moves freely between the two endpoints. When the camshafts rotate and the valves open and close the load alternates respectively between the small chain`s upper and lower side, resulting in tugging the actuator`s piston between the two end points pretty badly. I uploaded a video of this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F069qIpI3_U

When I fill the actuator with oil with a syringe, the piston no longer moves. So I assume the tugging is gone once the actuator is pressurized. Also, normally the oil can`t escape from the actuator easily, because there`s a check valve in the actuator`s oil pressure line which rectifies the oil flow. So, is it possible that the check valve remains open because of dirt or something and the tugging at start up eventually destroys the O-ring?****

In this case, dying of the actuator should be preceded by a rattling noise at every startup. Is that true?

Why is it that only the 1-3 actuator fails (if that`s true)? I`ve read some hints somewhere here on the forum about that in engines with****DOF****where the IMS is punched through, the actuator may be more vulnerable and more likely to fail. This makes sense to me because oil might leak through the IMS at the pump and the oil that gets lost has to be pumped back at startup. So, is there a real statistically significant relationship between DOF and actuator failure? And again, why only actuator 1-3?

Opinions?

jaykay 07-02-2020 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter (Post 619955)
Ok, so I did my homework and I have read through a a lot of threads and articles on this variocam fail topic and I learnt a few things that were new to me but maybe obvious for most of you all. I still have some questions that I thought are worth to share. First, what I learnt: 1) The actuators are all the same in all 5 chain engines, from 2.5 to 3.4, or at least they have the same part number. 2) The two units are different though, variocam 1-3 and 4-6 move to the opposite direction when they actuate, and it seems only actuator 1-3 has this large green O- ring that has a tendency to disintegrate. At least in all the threads I`ve looked at the first sign was the appearance of green rubber O-ring fragments. Actuator 4-6 has no such large green O-ring shown on the few pictures available on the web.

I noticed that when the actuator is not filled with oil the piston moves freely between the two endpoints. When the camshafts rotate and the valves open and close the load alternates respectively between the small chain`s upper and lower side, resulting in tugging the actuator`s piston between the two end points pretty badly. I uploaded a video of this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F069qIpI3_U

When I fill the actuator with oil with a syringe, the piston no longer moves. So I assume the tugging is gone once the actuator is pressurized. Also, normally the oil can`t escape from the actuator easily, because there`s a check valve in the actuator`s oil pressure line which rectifies the oil flow. So, is it possible that the check valve remains open because of dirt or something and the tugging at start up eventually destroys the O-ring?****

In this case, dying of the actuator should be preceded by a rattling noise at every startup. Is that true?

Why is it that only the 1-3 actuator fails (if that`s true)? I`ve read some hints somewhere here on the forum about that in engines with****DOF****where the IMS is punched through, the actuator may be more vulnerable and more likely to fail. This makes sense to me because oil might leak through the IMS at the pump and the oil that gets lost has to be pumped back at startup. So, is there a real statistically significant relationship between DOF and actuator failure? And again, why only actuator 1-3?

Opinions?

Very nice video. Just to clarify does your question of 1-3 actuators pertain to 5-chain motors or 3-chain?

Homeoboxter 07-02-2020 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaykay (Post 619959)
Very nice video. Just to clarify does your question of 1-3 actuators pertain to 5-chain motors or 3-chain?

5-chain. As far as I know 3-chain engines have a completely different system.

DaveBBOXSTER 07-03-2020 11:44 AM

Just following this discussion as my car had the green debris in the oil filter

DaveBBOXSTER 07-03-2020 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter (Post 619955)
Ok, so I did my homework and I have read through a a lot of threads and articles on this variocam fail topic and I learnt a few things that were new to me but maybe obvious for most of you all. I still have some questions that I thought are worth to share. First, what I learnt: 1) The actuators are all the same in all 5 chain engines, from 2.5 to 3.4, or at least they have the same part number. 2) The two units are different though, variocam 1-3 and 4-6 move to the opposite direction when they actuate, and it seems only actuator 1-3 has this large green O- ring that has a tendency to disintegrate. At least in all the threads I`ve looked at the first sign was the appearance of green rubber O-ring fragments. Actuator 4-6 has no such large green O-ring shown on the few pictures available on the web.

I noticed that when the actuator is not filled with oil the piston moves freely between the two endpoints. When the camshafts rotate and the valves open and close the load alternates respectively between the small chain`s upper and lower side, resulting in tugging the actuator`s piston between the two end points pretty badly. I uploaded a video of this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F069qIpI3_U

When I fill the actuator with oil with a syringe, the piston no longer moves. So I assume the tugging is gone once the actuator is pressurized. Also, normally the oil can`t escape from the actuator easily, because there`s a check valve in the actuator`s oil pressure line which rectifies the oil flow. So, is it possible that the check valve remains open because of dirt or something and the tugging at start up eventually destroys the O-ring?****

In this case, dying of the actuator should be preceded by a rattling noise at every startup. Is that true?

Why is it that only the 1-3 actuator fails (if that`s true)? I`ve read some hints somewhere here on the forum about that in engines with****DOF****where the IMS is punched through, the actuator may be more vulnerable and more likely to fail. This makes sense to me because oil might leak through the IMS at the pump and the oil that gets lost has to be pumped back at startup. So, is there a real statistically significant relationship between DOF and actuator failure? And again, why only actuator 1-3?

Opinions?

What concerns me is;
1) IF the green debris (in oil filter) is just an O ring mashed up then the potential risk of future issues (of oil feeds clogging) is relatively minimal (as clearly, my old filter had done its job and there was about an O rings worth of tiny bits) and claims that I need to "tear down the entire engine and have it rebuilt" (from some UK specialists) may be an overreaction?

2) If the one O ring is now gone and the actuator is still functioning then how long will it continue to function without the lost O ring? And in what way will it react (wear or break) over time OR maybe it will go on working because there are also other internal seals in the actuator?

3) Add the massive cost of the brand new OEM parts and the labour to fit (£2-3k?) in a £4K car that has a RMS leak and will need a clutch and maybe the dreaded IMS doing soon costing £1.5k+

Homeoboxter 07-04-2020 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveBBOXSTER (Post 620000)
What concerns me is;
1) IF the green debris (in oil filter) is just an O ring mashed up then the potential risk of future issues (of oil feeds clogging) is relatively minimal (as clearly, my old filter had done its job and there was about an O rings worth of tiny bits) and claims that I need to "tear down the entire engine and have it rebuilt" (from some UK specialists) may be an overreaction?

2) If the one O ring is now gone and the actuator is still functioning then how long will it continue to function without the lost O ring? And in what way will it react (wear or break) over time OR maybe it will go on working because there are also other internal seals in the actuator?

3) Add the massive cost of the brand new OEM parts and the labour to fit (£2-3k?) in a £4K car that has a RMS leak and will need a clutch and maybe the dreaded IMS doing soon costing £1.5k+

1) I agree, tearing down the entire engine is an overreaction. If you clean the sump and the strainer you should be ok. You would have to pull the valve covers anyway, clean the internals while you are there.

2) Good question. Perhaps others will chime in who had the same problem and know the answer. I wouldn`t use the car for too long like that, you can see in the video what happens if the actuator works with no oil. Probably your actuator is not there yet, the remaining O-rings may still hold the pressure? The small timing chain rail bits in the filter on its own would be a good reason to pull the valve covers to prevent future failures.

3) Yeah, tough decisions you need to make here. If you want to keep the car for long it`s worthwhile to fix all these issues. If you are a DIY person. If you are not, I`d consider selling the car to someone, who is...

DaveBBOXSTER 07-06-2020 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter (Post 620032)
1) I agree, tearing down the entire engine is an overreaction. If you clean the sump and the strainer you should be ok. You would have to pull the valve covers anyway, clean the internals while you are there.

2) Good question. Perhaps others will chime in who had the same problem and know the answer. I wouldn`t use the car for too long like that, you can see in the video what happens if the actuator works with no oil. Probably your actuator is not there yet, the remaining O-rings may still hold the pressure? The small timing chain rail bits in the filter on its own would be a good reason to pull the valve covers to prevent future failures.

3) Yeah, tough decisions you need to make here. If you want to keep the car for long it`s worthwhile to fix all these issues. If you are a DIY person. If you are not, I`d consider selling the car to someone, who is...

Yes, I agree with those points. I do some DIY but probably not capable of replacing variocam actuator, as it involves timing, etc. If I knew the one that was failing and the exact part number I'd get a good used one and get it put in...Done a few trips totalling 70 miles now and engine exactly as it was. Got recovery cover for a year as back up too. Plan to check filter again after a few hundred miles and see what it has in it.

Homeoboxter 07-06-2020 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveBBOXSTER (Post 620085)
Yes, I agree with those points. I do some DIY but probably not capable of replacing variocam actuator, as it involves timing, etc. If I knew the one that was failing and the exact part number I'd get a good used one and get it put in...Done a few trips totalling 70 miles now and engine exactly as it was. Got recovery cover for a year as back up too. Plan to check filter again after a few hundred miles and see what it has in it.

An easy thing you could do is to remove one of the green plugs on the camsafts on either side and take a peek into the gap. You can see the actuator from an angle and one of the pads. If you ask somebody to rotate the crankshaft with a wrench (clockwise) you can inspect the actuator if there`s any movement. There should not be anything, and probably there isn`t, because it would rattle otherwise, but at least you would get an idea if things look ok. At least things that you can see there. I`m not sure actually what you can see with the engine in the car, my engine is on a stand now. If you have a boroscope that may help.

DaveBBOXSTER 07-09-2020 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter (Post 620101)
An easy thing you could do is to remove one of the green plugs on the camsafts on either side and take a peek into the gap. You can see the actuator from an angle and one of the pads. If you ask somebody to rotate the crankshaft with a wrench (clockwise) you can inspect the actuator if there`s any movement. There should not be anything, and probably there isn`t, because it would rattle otherwise, but at least you would get an idea if things look ok. At least things that you can see there. I`m not sure actually what you can see with the engine in the car, my engine is on a stand now. If you have a boroscope that may help.

Yes that seems a good idea - nobody has suggested looking into it to check and I am guessing a bore scope would help see the actuator condition. Or maybe just listen with a stethoscope on the cam cover when it's on tick over and at 1,500 + revs? As the failed one likely to be on 1-3 bores drivers side for a UK car I may even try taking off the cover and have a look.

Homeoboxter 07-09-2020 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveBBOXSTER (Post 620300)
Yes that seems a good idea - nobody has suggested looking into it to check and I am guessing a bore scope would help see the actuator condition. Or maybe just listen with a stethoscope on the cam cover when it's on tick over and at 1,500 + revs? As the failed one likely to be on 1-3 bores drivers side for a UK car I may even try taking off the cover and have a look.

First, I`d suggest just taking out the plug at the intake cam. The plug is not reusable if you remove it so you will need a new one but it`s cheap. If you want to remove the cover, you will need to lock the camshafts and hold them down using a tool, otherwise you may damage the camshafts or the bearings. There`s a good tutorial about this in Wayne`s book, available online on Pelican`s website for free.

sfkjeld 07-12-2020 07:19 AM

Timely post for me. My 2000 2.7 just threw a 1341 error code (cam timing). The newly remanufactured engine was just installed last fall after Sitting in a garage for years. After reading this thread, seems conceivable the O-ring could have dried out and failed. I am still holding out hope it’s the sensor or solenoid, but after reading this.... probably not.

jaykay 07-12-2020 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter (Post 619960)
5-chain. As far as I know 3-chain engines have a completely different system.

Yes I believe oil pressure issues will not affect the actuation of the old style. They are straight solenoid based: on off. Oil will affect wear though

Homeoboxter 07-12-2020 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaykay (Post 620423)
Yes I believe oil pressure issues will not affect the actuation of the old style. They are straight solenoid based: on off. Oil will affect wear though

It should affect both. In the old, 5 chain system, the solenoid`s pin moves about 2 mm total, this operates a small plastic piston that opens and closes small oil passages inside the actuator. Oil flowing in these passages will control to which direction the large piston will move.

jaykay 07-12-2020 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter (Post 620433)
It should affect both. In the old, 5 chain system, the solenoid`s pin moves about 2 mm total, this operates a small plastic piston that opens and closes small oil passages inside the actuator. Oil flowing in these passages will control to which direction the large piston will move.

Thanks for this and good to know...had assumed it was only 3-chain that was affected

Homeoboxter 07-12-2020 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfkjeld (Post 620420)
Timely post for me. My 2000 2.7 just threw a 1341 error code (cam timing). The newly remanufactured engine was just installed last fall after Sitting in a garage for years. After reading this thread, seems conceivable the O-ring could have dried out and failed. I am still holding out hope it’s the sensor or solenoid, but after reading this.... probably not.

Sorry to hear... Can you tell which bank threw the code?

sfkjeld 07-17-2020 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter (Post 620446)
Sorry to hear... Can you tell which bank threw the code?

Bank 1-3 unfortunately.

Homeoboxter 07-18-2020 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfkjeld (Post 620682)
Bank 1-3 unfortunately.

Have you checked your oil filter? That may tell a bit more about the issue. Keep us posted!

sfkjeld 07-19-2020 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter (Post 620758)
Have you checked your oil filter? That may tell a bit more about the issue. Keep us posted!

Unfortunately I changed the oil a week before I found this discussion. I am pretty sure the “rattling” is becoming louder Tho, when starting the car cold. Once it’s started it runs well and subsequent starts are normal.

I am not clear on the work to replace these 0-rings and the actuator. Is this something a competent shop can do with the engine in the car? Is this a $3k repair or $6k?

Homeoboxter 07-20-2020 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfkjeld (Post 620841)
Unfortunately I changed the oil a week before I found this discussion. I am pretty sure the “rattling” is becoming louder Tho, when starting the car cold. Once it’s started it runs well and subsequent starts are normal.

I am not clear on the work to replace these 0-rings and the actuator. Is this something a competent shop can do with the engine in the car? Is this a $3k repair or $6k?

Just to make sure your actuator is failing, I would still pull the the filter and cut it apart to see if you have similar green rubber debris to that of shown in several threads in this forum. I believe the replacement can be done with the engine in the car, it`s difficult though because of the limited room. It`s quite straigthtforward with the engine out of the car on a stand if you have the right tools. No clue how much the labor costs, the actuator unit is around $1000 new.

sfkjeld 07-22-2020 12:48 AM

Ok, I don’t get this. Just received my new OBDII scanner yesterday. I cleared the 3141 error code (Camshaft Adjustment Bank1 below limit value) that threw the CEL. I cleared the code with the engine running. The moment the CEL cleared, the engine idled down maybe a hundred rpm. In addition, when I start the car after the CEL was cleared, the car does not really “rattle” the 1st second or two after starting as it had. Other than this anomaly, it runs normally otherwise.

Why does the car start and idle differently with the CEL on than off? Why would the chain “rattle” be different? Is that the nature of the 3141 code?

Homeoboxter 07-22-2020 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfkjeld (Post 621000)
Ok, I don’t get this. Just received my new OBDII scanner yesterday. I cleared the 3141 error code (Camshaft Adjustment Bank1 below limit value) that threw the CEL. I cleared the code with the engine running. The moment the CEL cleared, the engine idled down maybe a hundred rpm. In addition, when I start the car after the CEL was cleared, the car does not really “rattle” the 1st second or two after starting as it had. Other than this anomaly, it runs normally otherwise.

Why does the car start and idle differently with the CEL on than off? Why would the chain “rattle” be different? Is that the nature of the 3141 code?

Sounds interesting. What I can think of is that your solenoid got stuck in one position and clearing the code made it go back to where it should be at low rpms. But i`m just guessing. Did the CEL come back? You may wanna ask this question in a separate thread, perhaps more folks will chime in with knowledge about these error codes.

sfkjeld 07-23-2020 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter (Post 621052)
Sounds interesting. What I can think of is that your solenoid got stuck in one position and clearing the code made it go back to where it should be at low rpms. But i`m just guessing. Did the CEL come back? You may wanna ask this question in a separate thread, perhaps more folks will chime in with knowledge about these error codes.

No, I think are right. Thank you. Yes, the CEL did return a few days later. I went through the same process but this time, the idle wasn’t really rough to start with. I cleared the CEL and there was absolutely no change in the idle. So To your point, the cam may not have been in the wrong position.

I have an appointment to bring the car into the shop next week to address the cam issue. Am guessing it is the solenoid anyway.

sfkjeld 08-04-2020 09:58 AM

Failed Actuator causes fried ‘computer’.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sfkjeld (Post 621077)
No, I think are right. Thank you. Yes, the CEL did return a few days later. I went through the same process but this time, the idle wasn’t really rough to start with. I cleared the CEL and there was absolutely no change in the idle. So To your point, the cam may not have been in the wrong position.

I have an appointment to bring the car into the shop next week to address the cam issue. Am guessing it is the solenoid anyway.

Brought my car to a relatively high end Porsche shop, tho they seem to be more about racing than repairing old Boxsters. Anyway, the car was throwing a 1341 CEL. After they replaced the actuator, they found the car was still throwing the 1341. Their explanation is that when the actuator failed, it fried the “computer”. So they are now replacing the “computer”. They said it is a known problem. I find this a little hard to believe. Anyone with any experience with this? As many report with the dreaded 1341 CEL, the car ran great when I brought it into this shop.

blue62 08-04-2020 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfkjeld (Post 621919)
Brought my car to a relatively high end Porsche shop, tho they seem to be more about racing than repairing old Boxsters. Anyway, the car was throwing a 1341 CEL. After they replaced the actuator, they found the car was still throwing the 1341. Their explanation is that when the actuator failed, it fried the “computer”. So they are now replacing the “computer”. They said it is a known problem. I find this a little hard to believe. Anyone with any experience with this? As many report with the dreaded 1341 CEL, the car ran great when I brought it into this shop.

Did the shop verify that the cams were out of time before they replaced the actuator?
Did they record and tell you by how many degrees the cams were out of time?
Pretty simple to do.

Did they show you the faulty actuator and explain the fault with it?

If a DME -ECU- computer is fried how does it throw a code?
Or keep the car running??

Just a few questions that enter my mind;)

sfkjeld 08-04-2020 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue62 (Post 621944)
Did the shop verify that the cams were out of time before they replaced the actuator?
Did they record and tell you by how many degrees the cams were out of time?
Pretty simple to do.

Did they show you the faulty actuator and explain the fault with it?

If a DME -ECU- computer is fried how does it throw a code?
Or keep the car running??

Just a few questions that enter my mind;)

No mention of cams being out of time. Wouldn’t the car run differently if they were? And yes, I don’t get how a fried computer would allow the car to run completely normally. Much less still able to throw the same 1341 code with the CEL.

Homeoboxter 08-04-2020 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfkjeld (Post 621975)
No mention of cams being out of time. Wouldn’t the car run differently if they were? And yes, I don’t get how a fried computer would allow the car to run completely normally. Much less still able to throw the same 1341 code with the CEL.

I think when you get this code, that can also be because the two actuators are not running syncronously, one is working while the other is not, which will result in a difference in timing between the two intake camshafts, but only in a specific rpm range. This does not mean that your engine won`t run. It will, just not ideally. Correct me if I`m wrong. This "fried computer" thing sounds puzzling. It`s hard to imagine that the actuator and the computer both die at the same time... Did they show you the faulty actuator?

blue62 08-05-2020 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfkjeld (Post 621975)
No mention of cams being out of time. Wouldn’t the car run differently if they were? And yes, I don’t get how a fried computer would allow the car to run completely normally. Much less still able to throw the same 1341 code with the CEL.

Your cams can be out of time and the engine will still run fairly well.
Depends on how far out of time they are.

If you have one actuator not working your cams can still be in time until around 1500 RPM when the actuators are supposed to actuate. Then the cams on one bank will be out of time. Then the actuators kick back out around 5000 RPM so the cams will again be in time.

If the shop can not tell you if the cams were out of time and by how much before they replaced the actuator.
And if they are not showing you the faulty actuator and what the issue was with it.
That they charged you big money and didn't fix anything
Also now they want to replace the computer.
For more money.

Sounds to me like
1. they don't have a clue as to what they are doing.
2. they are taking you for a ride.

sfkjeld 08-05-2020 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter (Post 621977)
I think when you get this code, that can also be because the two actuators are not running syncronously, one is working while the other is not, which will result in a difference in timing between the two intake camshafts, but only in a specific rpm range. This does not mean that your engine won`t run. It will, just not ideally. Correct me if I`m wrong. This "fried computer" thing sounds puzzling. It`s hard to imagine that the actuator and the computer both die at the same time... Did they show you the faulty actuator?

The shop claims that when an actuator fails, it often “fries” the Computer. But as I say, this car runs perfectly. Low rpm and high rpm. They are installing a used computer today and presumably the car will then stop throwing the 1341 CEL. I will be surprised if that works. I have asked for all the replaced parts so will receive the Old bank 1-3 actuator and the “fried” computer.

sfkjeld 08-05-2020 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue62 (Post 621987)
Your cams can be out of time and the engine will still run fairly well.
Depends on how far out of time they are.

If you have one actuator not working your cams can still be in time until around 1500 RPM when the actuators are supposed to actuate. Then the cams on one bank will be out of time. Then the actuators kick back out around 5000 RPM so the cams will again be in time.

If the shop can not tell you if the cams were out of time and by how much before they replaced the actuator.
And if they are not showing you the faulty actuator and what the issue was with it.
That they charged you big money and didn't fix anything
Also now they want to replace the computer.
For more money.

Sounds to me like
1. they don't have a clue as to what they are doing.
2. they are taking you for a ride.

Yes, kind of what I am thinking. Both #1 and #2. Once they replace the computer and the car is still throwing the 1341 CEL, it’ll be interesting to hear plan C.

This is a high end shop. Between the race cars, turbos and both newish 911’s And air cooled 911s. But I’ve never seen Boxsters in that shop. When it comes to the vario cam system for 986s, is it the same as 996s? I assumed it was.

blue62 08-05-2020 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfkjeld (Post 622002)
Yes, kind of what I am thinking. Both #1 and #2. Once they replace the computer and the car is still throwing the 1341 CEL, it’ll be interesting to hear plan C.

This is a high end shop. Between the race cars, turbos and both newish 911’s And air cooled 911s. But I’ve never seen Boxsters in that shop. When it comes to the vario cam system for 986s, is it the same as 996s? I assumed it was.

Sorry I am not familiar with the 996 so I would not know.
I do know that they only used the twin actuator style in the Boxster from 1997-2002.
In 2003 they went to a different method of varying cam timing.

Keep us posted on the outcome.
Always interested on end results.

JFP in PA 08-05-2020 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfkjeld (Post 622002)
When it comes to the vario cam system for 986s, is it the same as 996s? I assumed it was.

Both the 996 and the 986 used similar VarioCam systems, the only difference was what year the Boxster when to the later VarioCam+, which was after the 996 had changed over.

sfkjeld 08-12-2020 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue62 (Post 622004)
Sorry I am not familiar with the 996 so I would not know.
I do know that they only used the twin actuator style in the Boxster from 1997-2002.
In 2003 they went to a different method of varying cam timing.

Keep us posted on the outcome.
Always interested on end results.

Just picked up the car. Turned out the new computer did not clear the CEL as they thought. At least they Didn’t charge me for the new computer. What they did do was replace the cam solenoid and replaced some wiring they thought could be causing the 1341 CEL. They said the oil pressure to the actuator is moving the cam now. But not to spec. That said, the car still passed the CA smog test. So they asked me to drive it 500-1000 miles then they wanted to flush the engine thinking it might clear a plugged oil gallery. They also changed the oil and said the oil filter was clean.

30 miles after picking up the car, the 1341 CEL returned. So I guess I’ll do the engine flush, but seems a long shot. Otherwise, I may just drive the car with the CEL. Hopefully I can clear the CEL and it will still pass smog next year.

blue62 08-12-2020 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfkjeld (Post 622465)
Just picked up the car. Turned out the new computer did not clear the CEL as they thought. At least they Didn’t charge me for the new computer. What they did do was replace the cam solenoid and replaced some wiring they thought could be causing the 1341 CEL. They said the oil pressure to the actuator is moving the cam now. But not to spec. That said, the car still passed the CA smog test. So they asked me to drive it 500-1000 miles then they wanted to flush the engine thinking it might clear a plugged oil gallery. They also changed the oil and said the oil filter was clean.

30 miles after picking up the car, the 1341 CEL returned. So I guess I’ll do the engine flush, but seems a long shot. Otherwise, I may just drive the car with the CEL. Hopefully I can clear the CEL and it will still pass smog next year.

Well that sucks.
Hard to give any further advice without having the car at hand.
Giving advice over the net is kind of a crap shoot at best.

Homeoboxter 08-12-2020 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfkjeld (Post 622465)
Just picked up the car. Turned out the new computer did not clear the CEL as they thought. At least they Didn’t charge me for the new computer. What they did do was replace the cam solenoid and replaced some wiring they thought could be causing the 1341 CEL. They said the oil pressure to the actuator is moving the cam now. But not to spec. That said, the car still passed the CA smog test. So they asked me to drive it 500-1000 miles then they wanted to flush the engine thinking it might clear a plugged oil gallery. They also changed the oil and said the oil filter was clean.

30 miles after picking up the car, the 1341 CEL returned. So I guess I’ll do the engine flush, but seems a long shot. Otherwise, I may just drive the car with the CEL. Hopefully I can clear the CEL and it will still pass smog next year.

That must be disappointing, sorry to hear :( When I rebuilt my heads I flushed the actuators with fresh oil a couple times with a syringe. The oil that came out didn`t look good. I can imagine that if the solenoid is not working for a while the old oil inside the actuator gets cooked and the small oil passages get clogged, so maybe it works out after a couple more hundred miles. Did you confirm the solenoid was faulty?

sfkjeld 08-13-2020 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter (Post 622481)
That must be disappointing, sorry to hear :( When I rebuilt my heads I flushed the actuators with fresh oil a couple times with a syringe. The oil that came out didn`t look good. I can imagine that if the solenoid is not working for a while the old oil inside the actuator gets cooked and the small oil passages get clogged, so maybe it works out after a couple more hundred miles. Did you confirm the solenoid was faulty?

Thanks. I asked the shop whether the solenoid was bad. They concluded it must have been because it was not moving the actuator at all when they first tested it. After replacing, it does move but not to spec. They referred to it as “slow”.

Hence they want to do this engine flush in the hopes of clearing an oil gallery to increase oil pressure in the actuator. Again, that sounds like a Hail Mary. But after your syringe experience, maybe the flush might clear out something.

Must say, I am stunned at how little difference the vario cam seems to make. If as they said, it wasn’t working at all on bank 1-3 when I brought it in, and it’s not working well now, why does the car run so well? I can’t tell the difference. Seems like a lot tech for not much performance.

Homeoboxter 08-13-2020 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfkjeld (Post 622519)
Thanks. I asked the shop whether the solenoid was bad. They concluded it must have been because it was not moving the actuator at all when they first tested it. After replacing, it does move but not to spec. They referred to it as “slow”.

Hence they want to do this engine flush in the hopes of clearing an oil gallery to increase oil pressure in the actuator. Again, that sounds like a Hail Mary. But after your syringe experience, maybe the flush might clear out something.

Must say, I am stunned at how little difference the vario cam seems to make. If as they said, it wasn’t working at all on bank 1-3 when I brought it in, and it’s not working well now, why does the car run so well? I can’t tell the difference. Seems like a lot tech for not much performance.

Well, the solenoid just operates a valve that controls oil flow within the actuator. It still can be totally fine if the actuator is bad, or the oil passages are blocked. It’s not too parsimonious to replace a $500 part without making sure it’s faulty. If you have the solenoid you can easily test it with a battery.

sfkjeld 08-13-2020 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter (Post 622557)
Well, the solenoid just operates a valve that controls oil flow within the actuator. It still can be totally fine if the actuator is bad, or the oil passages are blocked. It’s not too parsimonious to replace a $500 part without making sure it’s faulty. If you have the solenoid you can easily test it with a battery.

thank you. Could they have tested the solenoid before replacing it? They also claimed a failed actuator is extremely rare.

blue62 08-14-2020 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfkjeld (Post 622581)
thank you. Could they have tested the solenoid before replacing it? They also claimed a failed actuator is extremely rare.

A solenoid is just an electromagnetic device.
It could have been tested with a multimeter via back probing the wiring connections.
Also the function of the actuator can be tested with a OBDII scanner that has test functions.
With my $175.00 Foxwell scanner I can trigger my actuators then not only hear the difference in how the engine runs.
I can also see the cam timing change and by how many degrees.
Very simple tests that verify function.

sfkjeld 08-14-2020 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue62 (Post 622588)
A solenoid is just an electromagnetic device.
It could have been tested with a multimeter via back probing the wiring connections.
Also the function of the actuator can be tested with a OBDII scanner that has test functions.
With my $175.00 Foxwell scanner I can trigger my actuators then not only hear the difference in how the engine runs.
I can also see the cam timing change and by how many degrees.
Very simple tests that verify function.

Thank you, very interesting. I recently purchased a Foxwell scanner, probably at your suggestion. I’ve used it only to clear the CEL. Are you able to see the timing change on the scanner?

blue62 08-14-2020 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfkjeld (Post 622620)
Thank you, very interesting. I recently purchased a Foxwell scanner, probably at your suggestion. I’ve used it only to clear the CEL. Are you able to see the timing change on the scanner?

I can on my scanner.
It is the Foxwell NT520 Pro

I went out and hooked it up to my 2000S so I could refresh my memory on how I do it.
I will attempt to talk you through it.

Hook up the scanner
Go to the Porsche program and hit enter.
Go to manual selection and hit enter.
Go down to 986 Boxster/Cayman hit enter.
Go to Diagnosis hit enter.
Go to control units hit enter.
Go to DME (its the top choice on my scanner) hit enter.
Go down to actual values hit enter.
Go to all data hit enter.
Now you should be looking at a list of all the data the DME sees.

With the car running you can watch all this data under different driving conditions.
You can watch all the data the DME sees in real time. You just have to learn what your looking at and what it means.
I have hooked mine up and watched various data over a 320 mile run several times.

Now go down till you see camshaft deviation for each bank
Below that is actual camshaft angles.


so if your at idle watching camshaft angle you should see changes when your Variocam timing actuator kicks in. I think that is around 1500 RPM. then I kicks back out around 5000 RPM. Not positive on those RPM's but I should be in the ballpark.
You can graph it with the graphing feature and see changes over a short period of time.
I think you can also Data log with this scanner but I have never tried it.

Now You can back out to where you found actual values and go down to
Drive links active.
Hit enter
Now you can activate your fuel injectors and your Variocam timing Actuators.
sort of a test mode.
You will hear and feel the difference when you activate the injectors or the actuators with the engine running.
Now simply activating them does not tell you that everything is within spec. but it will tell you if they function, or not.

So that is how it works with my scanner on my 2000S

Hope this helps
Let me know how you go;)


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