IMS again

[maytag]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

You just described the IMS Solution.

Cool.
I can't tell from their literature if it's replaceable bearing shells that can be replaced as maintenance items when doing a clutch, for instance?

And, I find this bold type.... interesting:

"DESIGNED FOR THE LIFE OF THE ENGINE. 5 YEARS / NO MILEAGE LIMIT WARRANTY"



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[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by maytag

Cool.
I can't tell from their literature if it's replaceable bearing shells that can be replaced as maintenance items when doing a clutch, for instance?

And, I find this bold type.... interesting:

"DESIGNED FOR THE LIFE OF THE ENGINE. 5 YEARS / NO MILEAGE LIMIT WARRANTY"



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The IMS Solution solid bearing is designed to go the life of the engine, we have never seen or heard of one failing, or wearing out. We are aware of a couple that have been pulled out of one engine (having suffered dropped valves or rod failure) and then reinstalled in another engine where they continue to serve without problem. No other IMS retrofit can be reused.

From conversations with those more in the know, they have no designed life expectancy.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Let's see: Porsche sold you a $50K+ car (original price depending upon the year) and gave you a "limited" 4 year warrantee. LN sold you a $1K part, and warrantied it for 5 years, in a market where 1 year parts warranties are rare, and 30 days is more the norm. And you are complaining?

I'm not complaining. I just found it funny they claim to be the "Permanent Solution" yet their warranty is only 5 years. Contrary to your belief, many auto part manufacturers offer a lifetime warranty. Even Advance Auto brake pads and calipers come with a lifetime warranty. Carquest Alternators and A/C compressors have a lifetime warranty. etc.etc.

If they want to claim it lasts forever, then guarantee it forever. It's that simple. Put your money where your mouth is. Just saying.

I don't have anything against the product itself, I'm sure it's fine. I'll probably never buy it though, because for me the cost-benefit analysis isn't favorable.

And BTW, same thing goes for the EPS solution.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

No other IMS retrofit can be reused.

Help me understand why no other IMS retrofit could be reused. Thanks.

[particlewave]

It has a 5 year warranty because it’s aluminum and does not have a replaceable sleeve.

For a $1500 part with no moving parts, and “Designed for the life of the engine”, I would expect nothing less than a lifetime warranty.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by piper6909

Help me understand why no other IMS retrofit could be reused. Thanks.

With a roller bearing or ball bearing, you risk damaging the races in removing the bearing. High risk. As in, it'd be REALLY hard to NOT damage it.

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[maytag]

Originally Posted by particlewave

It has a 5 year warranty because it’s aluminum and does not have a replaceable sleeve.

For a $1500 part with no moving parts, and “Designed for the life of the engine”, I would expect nothing less than a lifetime warranty.

Shame that they aren't using a replaceable bearing shell. That'd be so much easier, too, since one could mic the parts and buy the right thickness for the parts you've got.

Shame.

And I agree: "built for ther life of your engine" should come with lifetime waranty. Otherwise, I'd change the tag line to "built to last you five years".

?? Pfft.

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[piper6909]

Originally Posted by maytag

With a roller bearing or ball bearing, you risk damaging the races in removing the bearing. High risk. As in, it'd be REALLY hard to NOT damage it.

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That makes sense, thanks.

[azlvr]

Originally Posted by particlewave

It has a 5 year warranty because it’s aluminum and does not have a replaceable sleeve.

For a $1500 part with no moving parts, and “Designed for the life of the engine”, I would expect nothing less than a lifetime warranty.

All warrantees are just insurance policies that are factored into the price.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by azlvr

All warrantees are just insurance policies that are factored into the price.

True. So when they sell a part that probably costs $20 to manufacture for $1000-$1500, you'd think a lifetime warranty would already be factored in.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by piper6909

Help me understand why no other IMS retrofit could be reused. Thanks.

With ball or roller bearing types, the extraction process literally jams the bearings into the race and cages, damaging both. The cages in particular tend to break up and the races get dented or scored due to the force exerted on them. Once this happens, the bearing is going to fail if reused.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

With ball or roller bearing types, the extraction process literally jams the bearings into the race and cages, damaging both. The cages in particular tend to break up and the races get dented or scored due to the force exerted on them. Once this happens, the bearing is going to fail if reused.

Thanks! Makes sense.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by piper6909

Thanks! Makes sense.

This is also why retrofit kit manufacture's have always said if you get an install cocked and stuck, and have to remove it, do not then re install the retrofit bearing as it is now damaged. This was particularly an issue with single row bearings which tended to do this more often than the dual row bearings. This is one of the reasons Jake released his "Faultless" tool system, which prevents getting the bearings cocked during installs.

[pilot4fn]

IMS again... or not???
My 2001 Boxter Base had IMS done 90.000mi ago (then 60.000mi on odo) with this part: 996.105.017
Can I find out from this number if the bearing is single or double row IMS?

Are these IMS bearings items that needs to get done every so often or only to replace the factory original with updated one?
If these need to be canged contionously as a service, I guess it's due in my car now...

[mikefocke]

Originally Posted by pilot4fn

IMS again... or not???
My 2001 Boxter Base had IMS done 90.000mi ago (then 60.000mi on odo) with this part: 996.105.017
Can I find out from this number if the bearing is single or double row IMS?

Are these IMS bearings items that needs to get done every so often or only to replace the factory original with updated one?
If these need to be canged contionously as a service, I guess it's due in my car now...

Part is listed as a housing. with engine numbers. So I wonder if it was really a bearing change.

[mikefocke]

Part is listed as "housing". Commonly called "flange". So how do we know if a bearing was changed?

[pilot4fn]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

Part is listed as "housing". Commonly called "flange". So how do we know if a bearing was changed?

Good question. I have from previous owner the receipt of the IMS bearing and change - clutch change was done also reputable shop, both at the same time. They took pictures of the job as well that shows bearing to be pulled out and also other works that was done... this in consideration, I do trust that it ws done...

Related to the Flange only on this part number, it shows on the invoice as "996105017 IMS bearing kit, Porsche Boxter 97-04" at 750€ price. Price for the work was as a separate line item.

After reading much more on this subject and trying to sort out any 'warnign signs' of wearing out IMS bearing, I can't find any warnign signs commonly written about - besides the current IMS bearing mileage.

[Subman]

I just had the LN IMS Retrofit done on my 02 Boxster S at 115,000 miles. When it came out the original IMS bearing was, in a word, perfect; it was in like-new condition. Still happy I had it done.

I intend to do the same thing in the spring on my 00' Carrera with only 34,000 miles. There are zero signs the car needs it; oil change at purchase showed (when the old filter was cut open) zero particulate inside, and the car's been dealer serviced regularly. Nonetheless it'll get done.

It's a really simple equation.

1. There's a (low) failure rate of some number with these bearings, and there's no accurate data on what percentage will fail. There's also no accurate predictor as to which cars are going to fail (high miles vs. low miles, single row vs. double row, oil changes at X miles vs. Y miles, etc.)
2. The vast majority of IMS bearings won't fail (as evidenced by mine, which was a single row in great shape after 115K).
3. Resale value of cars with IMS bearing replacement is higher.
4. Having the bearing work done eliminates "not knowing" how your bearing looks. That in a nutshell is why I did mine and why the 911 will also get the work done. Simple peace of mind.

There's a lot of subjectivity, and there's no right or wrong answer. If someone decides not to replace their bearing based on the low failure rate, clean oil filters etc., that's a pretty good plan with a high chance of success. And if someone (like me) decides to go ahead with replacement based on the certainty a new bearing provides, well that's OK too. Do what works for you and enjoy the car.

[pilot4fn]

Thanks Subman, good points. I'l probably get the IMS bearing changed at the spring as I get the car out from the garage (currently hiding from the snow)

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by pilot4fn

Thanks Subman, good points. I'l probably get the IMS bearing changed at the spring as I get the car out from the garage (currently hiding from the snow)

Subman makes some good points, but consider the cost vs benefits. You can get a good used 2.7 motor from $1500-3000 depending on location, miles, etc. An IMS will cost you around $1500. So you're looking, at best, at a 2:1 insurance policy against, at worst, a 15% chance the IMS bearing will actually fail.

Is it worth it?

I have a 2002 with 93K miles and Tiptronic. If I had a manual and needed to change the clutch, the IMS bearing may have been a "while you're in there" sort of thing. I don't, so it's not worth it for me.