$2.29 a Gallon!!

[Brucelee]

"Meanwhile the top dogs of the oil and gas industry are picking out the latest offerings from Maranello. Ha!!"

Sounds to me like you simply jealous!

[bnorman]

All this reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw in the '70s when we had to have odd/even rationing because of price controls on fuel. It read: "Eat More Beans. . .America Needs the Gas".

[deliriousga]

Originally Posted by bnorman

All this reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw in the '70s when we had to have odd/even rationing because of price controls on fuel. It read: "Eat More Beans. . .America Needs the Gas".

ROFLMAO!! Thanks for laugh, and thanks to MN Boxster for quoting actual figures. Boy, I want to be Mr. Rove. He seems to be able to rule the entire world with no end in site. But then they would assign 3 more black helicopters to monitor my daily commute and calls to aunt Suzi.

No use arguing with closed minds that refuse to even account for the normal market forces that have the greatest effects. It's like saying two opposing fronts had nothing to do with a tornado that destroying refinery. It was Almighty God Rove who called it out of the sky so his buddies could raise the price of gas and make milliions.

I'm outta here.

[Brucelee]

Conspiracy theories like these need some essential elements.

An event or situation that is undesirable.

A fundamental belief that OTHER humans are totally evil, but I am not!

That nothing bad happens on its own, there has to be bad guys doing it!

On a few "facts" which clearly are self-evident, ie. rich people got that way by cheating. How else could they get there if not for this cheating.

Mix them up and you have "The Da Vinci Code!"

Originally Posted by dbth

2 points:

1- Is there a shortage of Premium fuel in NJ? The price bump from regular to premium increased from 20 to 40 cents per gallon over the last 2 months.What is the difference from regular to premium in other parts of the country and world?

2- The run up and collapse in energy prices was a function of free market forces , not a conspiracy.Surely a supply demand /scenario (Katrina , South Asia demand, geopolitical tension ) pushed wholesale energy prices up.
This energy inflation was a huge profit for energy companies and for energy commodity speculators (hedge funds ).The power of leverage in the commodities futures markets gave speculators the ability to control energy prices.
Any maket that can be leveraged can be subject to extreme , even irrational price movements in the short term. The beauty of a free market is that supply and demand will bear the fair price over the longer term.
Look up Amaranth , a hedge fund that lost $6 billion (billion with a b) when they got caught holding the bag when the music stopped in natural gas futures.
If you have money invested with any mutual fund , you are a participant in hedge funds as mutual funds , pension funds , state funds (not wealthy individuals) hold the largest balances at hedge funds.

dbth, the price "premium" for 93 octane in the Chicago area has been around 18-22 cents for a very-very long time.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

"Meanwhile the top dogs of the oil and gas industry are picking out the latest offerings from Maranello. Ha!!"

Sounds to me like you simply jealous!

Ha! I now plenty of folks who have more money than I could ever begin to know what do with and I have never wished I was in there place. That amount money seems to only have complicated their lives.

There's nothing wrong with getting paid, it's the American way. People just seem indiferent to how so many our enriching themselves at the cost of our future healthcare, clean air/water, fiscal outlook and manufacturing base. It used to be that these folks got rich but everone in AMERICA benefited in the long term and the government rewarded that way of doing business. Nowadays those special interests get rich and the benefits go overseas while messing up everything at home (while our current government makes it as easy as possible). and who the hell is going to pay for all these debts when the clowns in Washington have departed this Earth??

anyhoo, I've previously worked with/in federal law enforcement/investigation both in public and private sector capacities. I've encountered/befriended all manner of prosecutors. My doubts about our ability/desire to go after corporate cheats in all sectors of trade and finance is not limited to what I read on judicial watch or see on tv. I've heard plenty straight from the horses mouth. The list of one time idealists fighting for the little guy turned-fed-up-cynic, is a very very long one. "we were trained to go after corruption/collusion and then told to back off and concentrate on something else" is a refrain I've heard too many times.


anyhoo...Karl Rove secretely running the world ? That guy couldn't lead a conspiracy out of paper brown bag. The gang that couldn't shoot straight. I laugh when I hear they are responsible for orchestrating this and that. The nutters give them too much credit. Karl Rove and his bunch are merely door mats for coporate wealth. Rove's Pretty good at getting out the vote though, I'll give him that.

[Brucelee]

Perfect,

You can't have it both ways.

One minute, it is a massive govt/industry conspiracy that has our prices moving.

The next minute, the govt can't find its way out of a paper bag.

Ditto, the spot traders. One minute they are pulling all the strings, the next, well, what's a 6B loss?

The fact is, the prices go up, and then they go down.

It is the history of commodities, throughout all time.

The funny thing is that G. Soros, that great liberal windbag, rode the commodities gravy train to Billionaire status.

Now, once he got there, well, time to have the REST of us fund the govt to do everything.

What a hypocrite! He almost took down the British economy while getting rich but now he has a heart!

PS-The bottom of the US economic scale still has it better than it ever did and better than most of the rest of the world.

Not bad for paying no taxes, huh?


PPS-the lastest data on taxes is that the bottom 50% of wage earners pay on average 3% their income in federal taxes. That is down 50% from 2000, when they paid just 4.5%.

This does not count refundable tax credits, which makes the number even lower.

Makes you proud to be an American.

[jeffsquire]

Avg. Fuel Economy (MPG)

1987 - 22.1
2006 - 21.0

Avg. Weight (Lbs.)

1987 - 3320
2006 - 4142

Avg. Horsepower

1987 - 118
2006 - 219

Avg. 0-60 MPH (Sec.)

1987 - 13.1
2006 - 9.7

% Cars/Trucks

1987 - 72/28
2006 - 50/50
_______________________

According to these figures from MNboxster if correct, we've been able to make 20% of the cars heavier (i.e. larger, smoother riding, safer, roomier), 30% faster, almost 50% more powerful with only a 1mpg sacrifice for fuel economy. Is this bad? If only the goverment could be so effective. . . .

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by jeffsquire

Is this bad? If only the goverment could be so effective. . . .

Hi,

You just don't get it. After 20 years of trying to improve the situation, we've slipped backwards, and not because of need, but because of want...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[jeffsquire]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

You just don't get it. After 20 years of trying to improve the situation, we've slipped backwards, and not because of need, but because of want...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

_______________________________________________

Errr, actually I do get it. My point is in your definition of "bad." There are plenty of people who think bigger, faster, stronger, roomier, smoother, safer vehicles at the cost of 1 mpg over 20 years is a damn fine improvement indeed. Many people believe that this is progress, not regression. After all, nobody really "needs" a car when there's public transportation, horses, shoes, bicycles, rollerblades, skateboards. In fact, I've seen an increase of at least %1000 of people using non-fossil fuel modes of transportation at rush hour every day. They''re everywhere. They don't want to pay high gas prices so they dont.

I "want" my cars and motorcyles and I'm willing to pay the gas to drive them. Which is why I drive my motorcyle 10 months out of the year (IN MICHIGAN!!) to save on gas.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by jeffsquire

_______________________________________________

Errr, actually I do get it. My point is in your definition of "bad." There are plenty of people who think bigger, faster, stronger, roomier, smoother, safer vehicles at the cost of 1 mpg over 20 years is a damn fine improvement indeed. Many people believe that this is progress, not regression. After all, nobody really "needs" a car when there's public transportation, horses, shoes, bicycles, rollerblades, skateboards. In fact, I've seen an increase of at least %1000 of people using non-fossil fuel modes of transportation at rush hour every day. They''re everywhere. They don't want to pay high gas prices so they dont.

I "want" my cars and motorcyles and I'm willing to pay the gas to drive them. Which is why I drive my motorcyle 10 months out of the year (IN MICHIGAN!!) to save on gas.

God bless the free capital markets!

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by jeffsquire

_______________________________________________

Errr, actually I do get it. My point is in your definition of "bad." There are plenty of people who think bigger, faster, stronger, roomier, smoother, safer vehicles at the cost of 1 mpg over 20 years is a damn fine improvement indeed. Many people believe that this is progress, not regression. After all, nobody really "needs" a car when there's public transportation, horses, shoes, bicycles, rollerblades, skateboards. In fact, I've seen an increase of at least %1000 of people using non-fossil fuel modes of transportation at rush hour every day. They''re everywhere. They don't want to pay high gas prices so they dont.

I "want" my cars and motorcyles and I'm willing to pay the gas to drive them. Which is why I drive my motorcyle 10 months out of the year (IN MICHIGAN!!) to save on gas.

Hi,

Nowhere did I say anything was bad, just what is. Also, while people using alternative means may be more noticeable, their numbers aren't currently accounting for much at all. Look at any Major Municipality and Urban Crawl is an increasing, not a declining issue.

But, you do raise an interesting point. If significant numbers do move away from fossil fuel dependence for personal transportation, that would leave fewer of us to support the Oil & Gas Industry infrastructure, and of course margins. Seems to me that this will, at least in a short term micro-economic sense, have a negative effect on prices for the consumer as well. Sounds like there's just no winning...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99