$2.29 a Gallon!!

[Brucelee]

"The EPA fined fewer polluters last year than at any point since Nixon built the agency? The lack of convictions must mean their is less polluting going on then ever before? Hmmm.."

Well, actually that is possible. You have data but no proof.

After 40 years of Environmental legal action, I can certainly believe that companies have figured out that it is pretty stupid to break the law. Expensive too!

Why can't you believe that?

Are you a big fan of M. Moore movies? I bet you are!

[Perfectlap]

Actually I think Michael Moore is an idiot. Not so much because of his movies but because he thinks along the lines of "us vs. them", He's as partisan as that other idiot Ann Coulter. This country has MASSIVE problems in the short term and SURREAL problems in the long term. Yet people are busy picking out their red or blue hats to wear on the deck of the Titanic. as far as the EPA there's no worry about breaking the law when the bar is set lower and lower each year. And those who do get caught get a mere slap on the wrist when you consider what they are doing to ALL OF US. If we can't even expect adequate federaly funded budgets to fight terrorism in the NYC subway (actually LESS since 9/11) how can you expect adequate funding for a lab looking for water polluters in areas no one goes to?? But rest assure that water makes it way onto the dinner tables of many working stiffs. Hello Washington anybody home????

The Concorde Coaltion have been squaking about the fiscal mess that our current crop of clowns in Washington have made for years yet its made no ZERO, ZILCH impact. There are no solutions that have a shot in hell of getting approved by our current Congress.
Pete Petersen a true fiscal conservative, a very smart dude and life time Republican has given up all hope of our fixing this mess. When smart dudes who know everybody that can help pass a law or enact a change are out of solutions then you have to wonder. I can only hope the current elections will bring about some massive reshuffling and maybe some form of political reform can be brought about to end the corruption and influence peddling that drive up our energy bills, spike our gas prices, and send our jobs to China.

I guess you are of the school of thought that without evidence you are "NOT GUILTY" while I beleive that the lack of 'proof' (there's plenty to find, depens who is looking) does not mean "INNOCENT".

The oil and gas industry is no more evil than the Tobbacco industry, Pharmaceutical industry, Health Care Industry, Walmart, and other very profitable industries that provide jobs but chip away and degrade the future of this country when a long term outlook is employed. This country has allowed companies to be as profitable as they can be for hundreds of years but in this latest chapter we are allowing to seek profitability at the cost of our nation's future like never before. A trillion dollar deficit, A massive chunk of our GDP to pay for healthcare, Our manufacturing base in tatters and the influence of those who lead these industries have done nothing wrong???????

A stronger argument for divided goverment has never been more glarinlgy evident. Collobaration is needed, one party in charge of everything makes it open season on the country.

and what should a gallon of gas cost? Every industry operates with different levels of profitability, they take whatever they can get and leave nothing behind. Some can expect nearly zero while others can expect a heck of allot more. Depending on how much we need their product governs the amount of abuse/gouging/manipulating we are willing to tolerate from those lucky industries. Particularly in an industry that unlike many is driven by speculation that somehow benefits allot of people in many different stages from production to retail.

[stateofidleness]

$4.20 for 92octane in TX... sigh...

[Jager]

$4.59 in California.

[J's boxster]

4.29 here in the peach state.

[spongebob]

Originally Posted by J's boxster

4.29 here in the peach state.

Double that figure and you have european pricing....

[9eighty6]

$4.18 in South Florida...

I. Hate. This. Thread.

Ugh.

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

I think the statements re. EPA fine levies is an oversimplification of what they actually do. They are not a Watchdog Agency, or strictly, an Enforcement Agency. In fact, that's one of the lesser functions of the Agency.

EPA is a pro-active Agency created to develop ways we can lessen the impact on the Environment and to aid Industry, State and Local Governments, as well as Individuals in achieving these goals. The Star Energy Compliance Program to name just one.

Having said that, EPA has levied some tremendous fines. They even have a statement in their charter which says that they cannot grant immunity and must even levy Fines on Companies who voluntarily come forward to report EPA violations, even if these violations have already been voluntarily corrected. That would seem to make any alleged collusion suspect.

We're all worried about the too high a price for gasoline, but consider this 20 year comparison of the avg. data about the US Car Market comparing 1987 to today:

• Avg. Fuel Economy (MPG)
  
  1987 - 22.1
  2006 - 21.0
  
  Avg. Weight (Lbs.)
  
  1987 - 3320
  2006 - 4142
  
  Avg. Horsepower
  
  1987 - 118
  2006 - 219
  
  Avg. 0-60 MPH (Sec.)
  
  1987 - 13.1
  2006 - 9.7
  
  % Cars/Trucks
  
  1987 - 72/28
  2006 - 50/50

This is sourced from the most recent issue of Panorama who sourced it from an EPA report: EPA Light Duty Automotive and Fuel Economy Trends 1975 - 2006.

Today's cars are 5% less fuel efficient, 30% heavier, have 186% more Horsepower and are approx. 30% faster in acceleration. Now did Industry force all this upon us or are they just producing what the Market demands?

We complain about Fuel costs, while at the same time, out of the other corner of our mouths praise Super/Turbochargers, Go-Fast Exhaust and Intake systems, Steroidal Power Chips, and the like. Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. Who affects the cost of Fuel more than we do?...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

PS BTW, not a MM fan either...

[Brucelee]

"This is sourced from the most recent issue of Panorama who sourced it from an EPA report: EPA Light Duty Automotive and Fuel Economy Trends 1975 - 2006.

Today's cars are 5% less fuel efficient, 30% heavier, have 186% more Horsepower and are approx. 30% faster in acceleration. Now did Industry force all this upon us or are they just producing what the Market demands?

We complain about Fuel costs, while at the same time, out of the other corner of our mouths praise Super/Turbochargers, Go-Fast Exhaust and Intake systems, Steroidal Power Chips, and the like. Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. Who affects the cost of Fuel more than we do?..."


Bingo!

[Perfectlap]

I rely on public transportation for 90% of the driven miles I travel.
If I had to commute daily via car I would not hesitate in buying a Prius.
BoxsterS for weekends only.
I think we need to start charging people gas prices base on the cars they
drive. Desperate times call for bla bla bla

[z12358]

1. Oil companies don't need to manipulate oil and gas prices in the open markets in order to turn a profit. What their lobbies ensure is that there will always be a profit for them no matter where those prices are. The power of those lobbies extends from as close as tax subsidies at home, to as far as influencing US foreign policy to act as a carrot and a stick to the countries auctioning their energy assets to these companies.

2. Apart from the enormous executive pay packages (which are wrong and undeserved but that's a different subject wider than the issue at hand) if one believes these companies have the game rigged in their favor (which they have), free markets allow for their shares to be bought in the open market so anyone could benefit from that edge (fair or unfair).

3. It is only fair for the users of gasoline (same as all other polluters) to pay to society for the damage they are doing to it. Clean environment is a resource (asset) equally owned by every citizen. The ones that are depleting these assets need to pay a tax (reimburse the rest) for the damage done. The reimbursement should equal the cost of reversing the damage done to the resource. There are studies done to estimate this cost but we could start with a 100% tax on gas and invest the proceeds in research on cleaner sources of energy, and take it form there. The Kyoto Treaty tried to apply this simple principle on a global scale but...

4. The US automobile and oil lobbies have influenced policy for so long (decades) that now it may be socially prohibitive (recessions, unrests, etc.) for all polluters to pay for the damage they are causing to the environment (millions of lower class commuters that depend on their car and cheap gas for their livelihood). Without the influence of these lobbies, and starting from the New Deal onwards the optimal way would have been for US to invest much more in public transport infrastructure instead of highways and roads for individual vehicles. Now we are all paying the price for the bias in those historical policy decisions. These lobbies have even influenced marketing and through movies, books, magazine articles have brainwashed people to think of public transport as something "lowly", "unindividualistic", "for poor people", "against the American free spirit", "call of the open highway", etc. They are still as powerful as ever. Campaign finance reform should address their influence but theres' no one to push things in the right direction, yet.

Z.

[Brucelee]

Blah, blah blah.

I am still waiting.

How much SHOULD gas cost and how did you arrive at that number?

[Brucelee]

"Desperate times call for bla bla bla"

Whose desperate, I am not!

I love free markets. If I want to drive a Prius and save on gas costs, I can.

If I want to drive a Hummer and pay to fill that up, I can.

As gas prices rise, more Prius' tend to be sold, less Hummers.

Demand diminishes, supply stays the same, prices drop.

The reverse is try also.

Let the good times roll.

Unless you want to rail against the MAN.

[Perfectlap]

well the rest of us are desperate!
The family of four that now has to pay 100% more to heat their already expensive to heat home and fill up their gas tanks now and have less money to kick into their non-existent 401K and junior's college fund. Which therby forces them to shop at Walmart with what is left which leads to them relying more heavily on "made in China" which sends another's family's job to Beijing and they're now on umeployment/public assistance.

Meanwhile the top dogs of the oil and gas industry are picking out the latest offerings from Maranello. Ha!!

Make no mistake we are in the midst of an energy crisis that has lead us into a war that has severely undermined our militaries reputations and we're all going to take a bite out of that S#*T sandwich to pay for it all.

Gas should cost what you are willing to pay for it. I'm willing to pay $1 per gallon.
Guess what? Aint nobody selling it for a buck so my BoxsterS sits collecting dust.
Guess I'm going to have to pay $2.80 for 93. Whatever they feel like charging we have to pay! It's like saying how much do you want pay for that Liver transplant?
It doesn't matter what you want to pay whatever they charge you have to shell out. Or you can die a slow painful death. If the Hospital decide to triple the cost even though their costs aren't rising proportional to the increase it doesn't matter. You still have to pay because you can't get your Barber to do the liver transplant (well not anymore)!
Add to that manipulation of the market by speculators (much like the currency markets going haywire because the Treasury Secretary catches a cold) and BINGO allot of people have made a ton of dough betting on futures while we are cursing the gas pump at the Exxon.
p.s. most individual investors lose money buying unleaded gas futures.