$2.29 a Gallon!!

[longislander1]

Brucelee, we'll see if it's really fantasy. Watch what happens to prices after the elections.

Fossil fuels have become a national strategic resource, yet our government allows them to be manipulated in return for political bribes. With the industry in private hands, we pay unnecessarily high prices (witness the oil companies' billions in ADDITIONAL profits), face arbitrary limits on supply (the oil companies -- with all their money -- haven't built a new U.S. refinery in 30 years and their maintenance of the existing facilities is highly suspect), and the nation isn't pursuing alternative energy (with so many politicians in oil companies' pockets).

If market forces for crude are driving prices, oil companies' margins would remain the same. Yet profits have skyrocketed.

You need to wake up and see how things really work in this country. I'm not sure I'm the one who's believing in fantasies.

I bought 93 octane yesterday in Champaign, IL for $2.55!

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by longislander1

Brucelee, we'll see if it's really fantasy. Watch what happens to prices after the elections.

Fossil fuels have become a national strategic resource, yet our government allows them to be manipulated in return for political bribes. With the industry in private hands, we pay unnecessarily high prices (witness the oil companies' billions in ADDITIONAL profits), face arbitrary limits on supply (the oil companies -- with all their money -- haven't built a new U.S. refinery in 30 years and their maintenance of the existing facilities is highly suspect), and the nation isn't pursuing alternative energy (with so many politicians in oil companies' pockets).

If market forces for crude are driving prices, oil companies' margins would remain the same. Yet profits have skyrocketed.

You need to wake up and see how things really work in this country. I'm not sure I'm the one who's believing in fantasies.

So, since the average ROI for Oil Companies over the last 20 years is actually lower than the stock market as a whole, you are saying that there is

A- Monopoly for oil companies to price however they want. It is just now that they are doing so.

B-That even though there is this monopoly, the oil companies choose to keep lower ROI numbers.

C-There have been anti-trust investigations conducted by the FTC, the Justice Dept. Congress, and about 35 state AGs. Yet, not one oil company exec or company has been indicted for any crimes of price fixing, etc.

That must mean that .......




It is all a vast right wing conspiracy!

Yet, the price of gas in the US is lower than it is in the rest of the world.

D-The oil companies monopoly power and their consipracy with the US Govt still won't allow them to get through the greenies in order to build new refineries. Check the public record, they have tried and failed any number of times.

Sorry, the price of gas will rise and fall, as supply and demand rise and fall.

That is the way it has always been!

But, don't let history get in the way of a good consipiracy!

PS-Since you believe this whole deal is a vast conspiracy, I will ask you the key question here.

HOW MUCH SHOULD GAS COST and how do you know that?


.

[longislander1]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

PS-Since you believe this whole deal is a vast conspiracy, I will ask you the key question here.

HOW MUCH SHOULD GAS COST and how do you know that?


.

Let me ask you some questions. Should gas cost $2.79 a gallon where I live, less than 50 miles from the nearest refineries, while the national average is $2.50? I'm sure that's just "market demand." Should America give away oil leases for free, resulting in losses of about $10 billion a year to the taxpayers? Do you really believe that oil companies, already awash in government incentives as well as profits, can't get a refinery approved with (no mistake here) Dick Cheney leading our country? Is it an accident that so little money is invested in alternative fuels in the U.S.? Why is the White House afraid to tell us who met with Cheney in formulating government energy policy?

What you'll see is more saber-rattling against Iran right after the November elections. Crude prices will rise sharply and so will prices at the pump. If the Republicans win both houses, they'll blame it on "market demand." If the Democrats win (we can only hope), the Republicans will try to make it their mess. Rove's probably working on it right now.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by longislander1

... If the Republicans win both houses, they'll blame it on "market demand." If the Democrats win (we can only hope), the Republicans will try to make it their mess...

Hi,

WAKE UP! What we need is an alternative to both of them - 2 sides of the same coin! Reagan once a Democrat, Hillary once a Young Republican, Robert Byrd - former Ku Klux Clan member, Randy Cunningham, former Medal of Honor winner now jailed for corruption. We need Term Limits and a return to the Citizen-Statesman, no more making an entire career feeding at the Public Trough! It's the seasoned professional politicians who got us in this mess! And all but a very few have absolutely no knowledge of what it takes to meet a payroll.

So far as Gasoline prices, blame the commodities market, pure and simple. Gasoline prices are set by the price of Gas futures contracts and these are driven mostly by speculation based on confidence, nothing more. Confidence in the geo-political scene, confidence in future demand and availability. You can seize the Saudi Oil Fields, build 30 new refineries, elect whichever party you choose, and the price will still be set on the commodities exchange. That's how it works...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[deliriousga]

We just hit $2.22/gal here and still dropping. :dance:

[deliriousga]

Originally Posted by longislander1

Rove's probably working on it right now.

Is there any other response from the left side of the aisle out there?

There have been no new refineries approved in over 20 years. I know it's convenient to leave out other past administrations to try and create a conspiracy, but the environmental nut cases are the ones who have made it impossible to get a refinery approved and I don't believe they support the current administration. Elementary economics shows any company that makes X cents per unit would want to have more units to sell. If their cost is less and they can sell it for less and make the same profit per unit but sell more units, they will (see WalMart for reference).

The gas prices are below where they should be when accounting for inflation over the last 20 years. They were much lower, until we stopped domestic exploration and China and India started exploding in growth. We have a find in the midwest U.S. that would make us 100% energy independent for the next 100+ years, but that last President's mad dash to try and screw up things for the next guy signed a billion last minute executive orders including one making the find completely off limits. Now there's some brilliance.

10 years ago we had legislation to start extracting from Anwar defeated, but of course the "problems" voiced by the opposition were "It will take 10 years to actually get oil out of the ground so how will that help?" and "It will harm the wildlife in the area." The latter has been proven false by the explosion in wildlife around the Alaskan pipeline (same arguement used against that) and it seems to me that it is now 10 years later and the same people are griping about the price of gas.

We also have great finds off our shores in the Gulf of Mexico that are not allowed to be extracted. Oh yeah, that is exept for by Cuba. They can extract all the oil they want off of OUR coast because they are intelligent enough to know if you need it you go get it.

Btw, your higher than average price "close to the refinery" includes the raping of the citizens of NY through the state and local tax system. One of the reasons they're all moving down here and my price is $2.22/gal with no refineries I know of in the state.

I bought regular unleaded yesterday in Chester, IL (home of Popeye) for $2.06/gallon.

[longislander1]

From today's paper:

"WASHINGTON, Sept. 20 — Four government auditors who monitor leases for oil and gas on federal property say the Interior Department suppressed their efforts to recover millions of dollars from companies they said were cheating the government.

"The accusations, many of them in four lawsuits that were unsealed last week by federal judges in Oklahoma, represent a rare rebellion by government investigators against their own agency.

"The auditors contend that they were blocked by their bosses from pursuing more than $30 million in fraudulent underpayments of royalties for oil produced in publicly owned waters in the Gulf of Mexico.

'The agency has lost its sense of mission, which is to protect American taxpayers,' said Bobby L. Maxwell, who was formerly in charge of Gulf of Mexico auditing. 'These are assets that belong to the American public, and they are supposed to be used for things like education, public infrastructure and roadways.'

"The lawsuits have surfaced as Democrats and Republicans alike are questioning the Bush administration’s willingness to challenge the oil and gas industry."

Please focus on the last sentence. I rest my case.

[Perfectlap]

doesn't matter if you are Republican or Democrat you are still being screwed by the Oil and Gas Industry who have the politicians in their back pocket.
You can close your eyes to it and say its a free capitalist society and there are no corrupt practices going on whatsoever in this industry, if you believe that there's a bridge here that just went on sale.
Doesn't matter if we explore and find more oil we'll just come up with new ways to consume at record levels with big stupid SUV and pick up trucks.
This country is out of control with consumption, corruption and indiference.

Meanwhile we owe more than we have ever owed in our entire history as a nationand we ship more of our manufacturing jobs to China then we have ever. These twin deficits have acclerated at an unprecedented level while the country is too busy being either apathetic or partisan.

We've dropped half a trillion on a war to install a democratic government in Iraq that will 99.9% likely be just as anti-american as the previous not-so democratic government(brilliant thanks! any other great ideas??).

each day the financial world see us less capable of handling our finances with more than a four year outlook in mind. Anybody that has had anything to do with our current foreign/fiscal situation, democrat or republican, needs to be sent on a permanent vacation. A bigger collection of clueless clowns have never been assembled in Washington and wait until it all starts to bite our long term fiscal future in the arse. Michael and LaToya Jackson could do a better job of managing our wealth then the morons we elect.

p.s.
I live in Jersey near some major Exxon refineries, the right likes to reference "tree huggers" and "eco extremists" but when you have lived with poor air quality your whole life (very very bad at times) you know its bigger than left vs. right politics, its a daily real world experience that we are in fact destroying our clean air and water. Its no myth.

[sandyman65535]

@fig and @johnsonrj74

Don't forget that we do at least get a little more octane for our buck in AUS and the UK. Aus regular is 93 or 95 RON and premium is 98 (IIRC... haven't had any cause to buy regular since having a boxster), and same in the UK (again IIRC).

But I can say for sure that petrol companies here in aus are a pack of thieves.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by sandyman65535

@fig and @johnsonrj74

Don't forget that we do at least get a little more octane for our buck in AUS and the UK. Aus regular is 93 or 95 RON and premium is 98 (IIRC... haven't had any cause to buy regular since having a boxster), and same in the UK (again IIRC).

But I can say for sure that petrol companies here in aus are a pack of thieves.

Sorry the octane is the same over here, we just state it differently. Our 87 is the same as your 92.

[SoK]

dropped below $4/g here in greater cincinnati.