Cayman sales tidbits

[pecivil]

BMW may be public, but the the lions share of stock (75% or more?) is owned by the Quandt Family and has been since the end of the war. They make the decisions as to what happens at BMW.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

This discussion went round and round before the cayman introduction and the concensus then was that the Cayman could dilute the Product Line and lend some confusion. We may be seeing that such is the case.

At least the Panamera should be distinct enough to prevent this and hopefully strengthen the Brand...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

I agree on the Pamamera. I would be interested in a Porsche version of a sports sedan. I don't think they have ever had one?

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

Assumptions if you like. But, Corporations, especially Car manufacturers in the past have often been driven by great vision. I believe (IMHO) Public Ownership, while great in many respects, also has the downside of creating near-sightedness on the Board and Managers. As an example, look at how many executive perks are based upon short-term rather than long-term goals. How R&D has shrunk because unless there's a direct link today to the closing price and earnings, budgets are pared.

Again, in the Car biz, look at Porshe's successes, and there were many, plot them against the timeline where Ferdi was driving the bus and you'll find a corrolation. Same with Ford. Old Henry took a bath the 2 years after raising the pay to $5, he expected and accepted it. But, the 10 years beyond exceeded his expectations as his own employees were able to become customers as well. A CEO trying these things today would be ********************canned after the 1st annual report or as soon as some institution dumped it's block of stock. If this didn't actually happen, the mere possibility of it can limit the risk that these managers (perhaps not even significant owners) are willing to take. Yes, it's the managers who decide the strategy, but they do so within the structure which exists and this can often be risk averse, so the status quo leads to self-preservation.

Will Porsche fail?? Inevitably, the question is when and how. That of course is speculation, and open to opinion, especially when on the outside looking in...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Sorry Jim but the experience woudl not support your supposition. Fact is, there have been more great cars built in the last 25 yrs than in the 25 before that. Most of these great cars were built by public corporations.

It ain't the structure, it is the people.

[Perfectlap]

Convertible Cayman?

isn't that a Boxster?

Interesting ^ about those inventories, many in the Pcar community were
saying a Cayman made no sense and it was "unexplainable hype" and strictly a one off. But maybe people really think a 911 is now TOO much dinero for the power and styling are pulling the trigger on the Cayman (still very expensive for 300HP) but not as painfull as getting smoked in a 911 by a $25K cheaper ZO6!
Also, $100K for a sports car use to be truly exotic car territory and only the 911 Turbo could command that 'exotic' title. Personally if I had $100K to drop on a sports car, a fully optioned standard/S Carrera would NOT be on the top of my list. Really, they're not that uncommon nowadays..

As for CaymanS, Since it came out I have seen so many articles where 'seasoned' autor journalists call the Cayman nothing more than a stepping stone to the 911 without a single mention that it is a better handling and responsive car. No mention to the mid engine layout, and no mention to the eagerness by purist enthusiast Porsche community for the Cayman. Are the journos really that stupid or is there some kind of wink wink going between Porsche and the media?

[Brucelee]

"Are the journos really that stupid or is there some kind of wink wink going between Porsche and the media?"

How about both of the above!

[Brucelee]

I have had all manner of 911. I think they are nice cars, overrated and overpriced.

I like the Boxtster better, although it could have more content for the base price.

The snobs who believe the 911 is the only only thing are just that, snobs.

PS-

Give me a zo6 against 996 Turbo on ANY track in the world.

If I am driving them both, the 911 is toast!!!!!

[Perfectlap]

LOL toast!

I've said before for the track if you offer me Z06 and 911 Turbo/GT3
I'll jump in that Z06 faster than you can say balsa wood underfloor!
So much power! So wide a track. WOT into a right hander at 10/10ths must be a life changing experience.

Now for the drive home I'll give the keys to the Z06 to the next guy.
The Corvette despite its dominance in performance still has a big
image problem. Its looks are still very generic. The performance does not match the design. It simply does not look like a $100K car even though it matchest $100K world class peformance and engineering like a Ferrari or Ford GT. Its the beauty queen with hairy legs while the 996 Turbo and GT3 is Giselle Bundchen.

[chiefsalami]

Actually pretty soon I'll probably have a supercharged 2001 Z06 to complement my 2002 Box S. At least for a short time, until I sell the Z06 again. Guys, realize that we keep talking about strictly performance. How often on the street will you be driving either car at 10/10ths? For that matter, how often will you be at the track?

So for every-day driving and comfort (everything besides 0-60 times), I'll take the Box or any Porsche (including the $80k - $100k prima donna) over some other American or Japanese car that, sure it goes fast, but makes me sick sitting inside of (or looking at the outside of). Since we're using the vette as an example, the American's have never figured out how to make something look and feel "exotic". Sit inside a brand new $80k+ Z06 (hell, even the Ford GT for that matter!) and you get the same clunky GM radio, crappy plastic, and flimsy non-ergonomic interior that you get in a Chevy Malibu. Or how about a Subi or some S2000 - cloth seats and bare interior, ill-thought-out layout, etc. You get my point?

Sure, performance is a piece of the puzzle. But I'd much rather have overall quality and a higher standard car to drive in every day and love to be in than one that gets to the next streetlight faster than the guy next to me but I have to detail often to get rid of the smell of my own vomit. I'd be willing to pay for this overall quality, and I'm sure that's where a lot of Porsche or MB owners are coming from. The money is not spent on the bigger, better performing engine, but rather *everything else* you get for the price.

[Brucelee]

"But I'd much rather have overall quality "

I will be laughing about this for a long long time.

I have dealt 911s for some time now. I can tell you that there is nothing scarier to a dealer than a 911 out of warranty. We just want them GONE as fast as possible.

Now a vette out of warranty is not scary at all.

Can you guess why?

Because having the 911 in inventory is like musical chairs, where the $5K repair bill is given to you after the music stops. Or, if you are really unlucky, a $12K repair bill of for the engine.

Sorry, but that is a BIG part of quality.

IMHO

[chiefsalami]

Granted... out of warranty cars are out of warranty cars. I was referring to new vs. new. With the exception of my 2002 Box s, every other car I've had in the last several years have had warranty on them, so if anything goes wrong it's covered. So I mentioning overall quality for a new Corvette versus a new Porsche. I'll tell you where I'd rather spend my money....

[Ronzi]

From what I have seen in the automotive press, the Cayman IS outselling the Boxster. Probably to be expected since Cayman sales are being bumped by purchases from the "early adopters" that simply have to have the latest thing.

Perhaps the more surprising statistic is the continued very strong sales of the 911. US sales are reportedly up 31%, 1st 6 mos. of '06 vs 1st 6 mos. of '05. The 911 sales in the 1st six mos. actually exceeded combined sales of the Boxster/Cayman, 6,421 vs 6,416.* Apparently 911 buyers don't consider the car to be overpriced. Or maybe they're just wealthy enough that it doesn't matter.

*reported in August '06 Porsche Panorama, the PCA monthly magazine.

[Brucelee]

What has suffered for the Porsche dealers is USED car sales. My dealer reports used cars down 50% in last year.

Both 986 and 996 resales are hurting.