L&N Engineering

[PaulE]

Hi since my 2003 S engine crapped out on me a little over a week ago I missed the RND engine sale and would have loved to been able to buy one of them! Unfortunately for us a lot of cost accounting went into the design and engineering of our cars and the M96 and M97 engines. When my engine is torn down and the failure is determined I’ll post the details. My engine had less than 78,000 miles and I had the IMSB upgraded to the LN Single Row Pro at around 42,000 miles. I doubt that was what failed but we’ll see soon enough, for what a sample of one is worth. As for the conversation with EPS, there are lots of salesman who will badmouth their competitors and who knows if the engines they see with failed LN IMSB’s were already damaged before they installed new IMSB’s. And warranties at the end of the day are a financial equation for anyone offering one-it makes perfect sense to me that the warranty was extra on the clearance sale engines, and LN* didn’t build those engines with the intent to move them out in a clearance sale. You should rest easy, get your car back together and enjoy it!

*LN, RND, Bilt Racing and a few other companies are all Charles Navarro.

[gabedrummin]

I appreciate all the comments. The motor We pulled had 127,000 miles ,she ran great ,the problem was that when I stopped at a light oil pressure would drop below 5 psi. I did connect a mechanical test gauge were the pressure sender screws into the head to verify this.I have the updated bypass piston and screw. Oil sump was clean. In the filter I see plastic and what looks like cooper so I assume the bearings for the crank and rods are going.I have had the car 3 years now and this all started after the first oil change i did . I went to the recommended 0-w 40 Mobil 1.....So I assume the seller put heavy oil in to mask the problem.Anyway this car is my daily driver and I don't want problems I have replaced all the suspension parts new coil overs new xenon head lights new leather seats new glass window top new rotors and breaks all new stainless exhaust with 200 cell headers cat deletes I want some piece of mind that I go on a 2000 mile trip and she will make it back. And now I have a good core motor to make it into 3.4 or larger if possible.Once again thank you all you making me feel better about my decision I don't see any compelling info to pick one or the other It is all based on opinion. I can find no factual information as to any being better than the other.Thank you all.On a side note how lager can a 3.2 base motor be turned into is 3.4 max?Thank you all this forum is the most valuable tool we have .Thank you.

[PaulE]

If you spend $5k you can buy a set of Nickies from L&N with pistons and rings and increase your 3.2 to either 3.6 or 3.8.

[mikefocke]

The LN replacement kits have probably hundreds of times more installations than any other replacement kit. They have been improved over time based on feedback and examination of returned parts. Their warranties have been increased. Any sane business limits the length of a warranty, don't misinterpret the length of the warranty for the expected life of the bearing. Life of any bearing depends on manufacturing tolerances, block trueness, oil change intervals, oil quality used, driving style, failures of other parts, etc. I've followed the IMS issue since before the introduction of replacement kits, talked to many of the kit developers. Know of their failures, and successes. If it were me (and I owned M96 engines twice) I'd gamble if the engine was running well. (I did for both my engines and there wasn't any owner at the time who knew more about the IMS potential for problems than I did. At the same time, I should say I could have afforded to replace the engine with an improved one if it had failed. Not everyone is in that position.) If rebuilding, I'd go full out and replace everything and have it done by someone with an excellent reputation. And still know that stuff happens.

The EPS salesperson sounds hysterical. Just their naming it "Eternal" put me off the first time I heard the name. Stuff ages and wears. Everything.

I'd challenge the sales guy to identify the 50 failures by name or VIN. I certainly haven't, in 8 years or so of reading multiple forums daily on three continents, seen any significant number of LN failures. Yes, bad installs can happen. Yes, installs into already contaminated engines do happen. But you'd think, if there was a problem, the forums would reflect that. They don't.

Your car, your money, your choice. Enjoy our wonderful car.

[Geof3]

Originally Posted by itsnotanova

RND is selling off motors to make room in inventory for 9A1 inventory. The M96/M97 market is dropping in value. Sorry but we're getting thrown to the side for the newer toys

I think it is the simple reality that the market is saturated with IMS "fixes" and the majority of engines out there either have no issues or have been fixed already with one product or another. Ride the wave while it's hot...

[thom4782]

This is simple...

If you want a bullet proof fix, put an IMS Solution in before you bolt the pressure plate back on.

If you don't want to go that route, call Charles at LN and talk to him. If nothing else, he can tell you about the development and testing of the roller bearings that come with RND engines. Roller bearings may carry more load than ball bearing, but the issue with rollers is thrust control

Here are my personal opinions.

Original IMS bearings can come out of cars and look pristine, mine did, but if the grease has washed out the countdown to failure clock had starting to tick already

Probably any unsealed bearing would work...the Porsche bearing problem was degraded seals let the grease wash out but prevented splash oil from lubricating the bearing adequately afterwards.

Ceramic bearings last far longer than steel bearings. The limits LN puts on it's ceramic solutions are guidance about when to consider replacements, probably conservative recommendations at that. These limits are not statements about end of life.

I don't know if LN bearings - other than the IMS Solution - are far more durable than the alternatives, but the engine will likely fail for other reasons before the new bearings fail. In my car the main timing chain rail is on its last legs.

I agree with others...if LN bearings were so poor, the forums would have made that clear long ago.

Roller bearings may carry more load than ball bearings, but the issue with rollers is thrust control

[MWS]

On a somewhat related issue, I recently had a bearing fail on a pressure washer; disassembled and found it was a needle bearing with a plastic cage. The cage failed, the needles lost alignment and seized the shaft. Looking at the mess, I wondered why the decision was made to use a needle bearing rather than a ball bearing and eventually concluded that the needle type might provide better shaft alignment than a ball bearing (as the depth of the needle was greater). I thought about re-engineering to accept 2 stacked ball bearings (doesn't this sound familiar?), but I couldn't find 2 such bearings that would fit. Continuing looking, I resorted going back to a needle bearing (to my suprise, was sold as a "shaft location" bearing, but the at least this one used a metal cage rather than plastic.

I shared this because I can see the logic in a roller bearing (or a double row ball bearing) as a good choice if alignment is most critical. In saying all of that, I should admit I have the LN replacement bearing....

I should also add that I'm not an auto mechanic, just a tinkerer who gets irked when I find a failed component that wouldn't have failed if it was just engineered better.