Interesting discussion this weekend....

[spinedoc]

So, had an interesting chat w a friend out East this weekend. He mentioned that he was at a car show this weekend, and one of the cars that won an award was a 1979 Porsche 930 Turbo.

The interesting thing is, according to the owner, the car has a branded title. It was a theft recovery and initially a salvage title, subsequently a "rebuilt" title. The guy bought it fairly cheap, and put a lot of work into it....

This started an interesting discussion. We all know that salvage titled cars are typically worth anywhere from 30-50% less than clean title cars. People often have a difficult time getting insurance coverage or loans, primarily because the value of the car is so difficult to assign.

I know, when I was younger, I bought a 944 Turbo that was a "rebuilt" car. Didn't have money at that time for a clean title car, and wanted something fun to wrench on, etc.

This however, begs the question, if a branded car is good enough to win awards at the car show, does that raise it's value, and then...by how much? Would a branded car w numerous awards be worth more than a clean title car? Lots of questions....

Just a fascinating discussion and thought I would ask people's opinions here. My 0.02 cents was that it would probably be worth more than most "branded" vehicles, but still not the same as a clean titled vehicle.

[ryanjboutin]

Pure speculation here, but if it's a collector or specialty car, and has well documented repairs, I don't see why it can't win awards, or even be insured well.

Might have to go through Hagerty or special insurance though.

Again, I have no experience here, but that sounds sensible to me.

[thstone]

It depends.

I have seen 911's rebuilt literally from the ground up using a tub with a salvage title. The only thing that came from the original car was the tub since it has the VIN and the owner had documentation showing that the tub was in perfect shape and never had any damage.

Of course, many of us have also seen the exact opposite - cars that were crap with salvage titles.

So, I think of a salvage title as a red flag that requires full investigation, but its not an automatic value killer. Cars that fail the investigation or have a sordid past will take a big value hit because of the risk that the buyer is taking on. This is the stereotypical salvage car found at "Jerry's Used Cars and Appliances" in the bad part of town that is selling a nice looking car for 30% under market value.

It really depends on the details - what happened to the car, what was done to the car, and who did the work. And as you said, a clean tittle is always preferred.

[spinedoc]

Originally Posted by thstone

It depends.

I have seen 911's rebuilt literally from the ground up using a tub with a salvage title. The only thing that came from the original car was the tub since it has the VIN and the owner had documentation showing that the tub was in perfect shape and never had any damage.

Of course, many of us have also seen the exact opposite - cars that were crap with salvage titles.

So, I think of a salvage title as a red flag that requires full investigation, but its not an automatic value killer. Cars that fail the investigation or have a sordid past will take a big value hit because of the risk that the buyer is taking on. This is the stereotypical salvage car found at "Jerry's Used Cars and Appliances" in the bad part of town that is selling a nice looking car for 30% under market value.

It really depends on the details - what happened to the car, what was done to the car, and who did the work. And as you said, a clean tittle is always preferred.

Yeah, it just started an interesting discussion on the intrinsic/extrinsic components of value, and how would you appraise or value such a car. Obviously, if you have two 99.5 point cars, and one has a clean title, and one has a rebuilt title, the clean title is worth more...but the question is, if you have a 99.5 point rebuilt title car, vs a non show winning clean title car, which is worth more???? It's almost impossible to answer, but we even tried to model it using an expected utility theory model......too many variables.

[FoxRvrBox]

State laws vary widely about what causes a car to have a branded title, and the older the car gets, the less impact it seems to have on the value. However, when you get to the collector realm, the car is essentially rebuilt anyway ... hard to figure this one out. If you replaced the hood and door from a collision, or did the same work for restoration, in reality, what is the difference?

[j.fro]

I think the crux of this is collectible vs not. 930's are now collectible cars and are bringing big $$$. For lots of these, good stories may even make the value go up (theft recovery, returned to original owner then restored, me and Dad, etc..)
Imagine 4 930's in a show: one is an all original, 135,000 mile survivor, another is an 8,000 mile garage queen, the next is a 100% nut-and-bolt fully restored theft recovery, rebuilt title gem, and finally there's an ex SCCA racer with track patina and lots of period wins at Laguna-secca or somewhere. Who's on top???
Now imagine 4 identical story 986's...