Dealer incompetence just dumbfounds me

[Perfectlap]

I guarantee you the tech who forgot to torque you lugs was a newbie.
Sooner or later the young pups are let loose at the dealership and they do these sort of things until someone like you chews someones arse out and they track down Jimmy. He learns a hard lesson and pays more attention.

On my last visit to the Porsha house, The kid (and I mean kid, couldn't have been over 21) who "checked" my soft top relay was obviously right out of Porsche school. My soft top relay was bad according to him. I had to point out to him and the service rep that the relay wasn't bad because I JUST INSTALLED A NEW ONE! Well turns out it was just loose.

My dealership is a very high volume shop. The garage looks like a aircraft hangar I must have counted 15 lifts. They need to hire more people and have one guy who checks all of the new guys works and does a checklist inspection of every car leaving.

which reminds me how much torque should the wheel lugs get?

[EPIQTodd]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I guarantee you the tech who forgot to torque you lugs was a newbie.
Sooner or later the young pups are let loose at the dealership and they do these sort of things until someone like you chews someones arse out and they track down Jimmy. He learns a hard lesson and pays more attention.

On my last visit to the Porsha house, The kid (and I mean kid, couldn't have been over 21) who "checked" my soft top relay was obviously right out of Porsche school. My soft top relay was bad according to him. I had to point out to him and the service rep that the relay wasn't bad because I JUST INSTALLED A NEW ONE! Well turns out it was just loose.

My dealership is a very high volume shop. The garage looks like a aircraft hangar I must have counted 15 lifts. They need to hire more people and have one guy who checks all of the new guys works and does a checklist inspection of every car leaving.

which reminds me how much torque should the wheel lugs get?

96 ft/lbs, and never tell a non-Porsche mechanic that because they will not believe you. I have gotten in heated arguments with wheel 'experts' who insisted no car can take more than 60 ft/lbs, and the old 'I've been torquing wheels for 47 years' thing.

[Perfectlap]

Yeah that's why I can never remember which it is.
THe book says one thing but the drivers tell me another.

36 pounds is a big difference aren't the wheel bearings under too much pressure?
or is that not even affected?
and can they deny a claim because your not going by the book?

Also I have craftsman torque wrench and I don't really trust the accuracy of that little hash mark on the collar. is there a torque gauge (that doesn't cost $300).

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by EPIQTodd

96 ft/lbs, and never tell a non-Porsche mechanic that because they will not believe you. I have gotten in heated arguments with wheel 'experts' who insisted no car can take more than 60 ft/lbs, and the old 'I've been torquing wheels for 47 years' thing.

Hi,

Interesting, get yourself a new set of Experts. The Wheel Lug torque spec on my Honda Passport is 92 ft-lbs., my wife's Jaguar - 96 ft-lbs., my wife's former Lincoln Continental - 92 ft-lbs., and my Lotus Esprit - 94 ft-lbs. It would seem that 90+ ft-lbs. of torque for Wheel Lugs is not only common, but prevelant through a lot of diverse cars...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[EPIQTodd]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

Interesting, get yourself a new set of Experts. The Wheel Lug torque spec on my Honda Passport is 92 ft-lbs., my wife's Jaguar - 96 ft-lbs., my wife's former Lincoln Continental - 92 ft-lbs., and my Lotus Esprit - 94 ft-lbs. It would seem that 90+ ft-lbs. of torque for Wheel Lugs is not only common, but prevelant through a lot of diverse cars...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

That's why I used the 'experts' moniker in quotations, just as I did here.

By the way, I just contacted Hoehn Porsche and spoke to the service manager about this little incident (by 'little' I mean incredibly significant, and potentially business-ending for them, as an accident on the freeway due to negligence on their part in properly securing the wheels might result in a fatality) and he listened to me complain about how this was so far elementary and basic and that it would be potentially very dangerous. He simply replied with "I agree with everything you are saying", no apology, then I stated that my plan was to contact PCNA due to the severity of the issue and he replied with "do you want their number?" in a snappy voice. Nice. I fear for the lives of all those who are driving around without the knowledge that their wheels could come off at any moment thanks to the negligence of Hoehn Porsche in Carlsbad, CA. Had I not changed the pads last night, I wouldn't know, and how many people pick up their cars from a dealer then go home and change brake pads, thus removing the wheels and checking the bolt tightness? My guess is less than .1%. The other 99.9% are still at risk, but the service manager seems not to care. I would have expected an eat crow attitude, not a 'kiss my a**' attitude in such a situation.

PCNA was quite receptive and apologetic (and they don't need to be - ironic, huh) and will submit a formal complaint on my behalf. Not that I want to go back to Hoehn Porsche now, but I'm quite sure I will be blacklisted there anyway.

[mach schnell]

Originally Posted by EPIQTodd

That's why I used the 'experts' moniker in quotations, just as I did here.

By the way, I just contacted Hoehn Porsche and spoke to the service manager about this little incident (by 'little' I mean incredibly significant, and potentially business-ending for them, as an accident on the freeway due to negligence on their part in properly securing the wheels might result in a fatality) and he listened to me complain about how this was so far elementary and basic and that it would be potentially very dangerous. He simply replied with "I agree with everything you are saying", no apology, then I stated that my plan was to contact PCNA due to the severity of the issue and he replied with "do you want their number?" in a snappy voice. Nice. I fear for the lives of all those who are driving around without the knowledge that their wheels could come off at any moment thanks to the negligence of Hoehn Porsche in Carlsbad, CA. Had I not changed the pads last night, I wouldn't know, and how many people pick up their cars from a dealer then go home and change brake pads, thus removing the wheels and checking the bolt tightness? My guess is less than .1%. The other 99.9% are still at risk, but the service manager seems not to care. I would have expected an eat crow attitude, not a 'kiss my a**' attitude in such a situation.

PCNA was quite receptive and apologetic (and they don't need to be - ironic, huh) and will submit a formal complaint on my behalf. Not that I want to go back to Hoehn Porsche now, but I'm quite sure I will be blacklisted there anyway.

Another glowing example (and unfortunate experience by another Porsche owner) of why I bailed out of my Porsche. Perhaps this is the kind of sh$% that Porsche dealers, techs, service mgrs are trained to give to Boxster owners - afterall, its the low end product in their line up. An interesting experiment would be to track down some with with a $100k + Carrera who had the same problem and brought it to the serv mgr's attention. Would he or she get the 'go f$%k yourself attitude' or would he get the job repaired immediately, a 'beat the hell out the tech' pass and a week of blow jobs from the general mgr's stripper-wife!?

At least, Todd, you got a little more out of PCNA. Anytime I contacted them, they said things were dealer-specific and I should contact the dealer.

I think I've resolved to the fact, at least with ownership of a new or under-warranty Porsche (insert any model) that ideally to be a mildly satisfied owner, the Porsche should be a second vehicle, at a minimum, even if it's intent is daily driver. In other words, you should have at least one other car in your garage to drive on a daily basis, if and when, the Porsche has an issue. Furthermore, and most important in my opinion, your financial position should be one that dealing with either a $50k or $100k car that may both be in the shop on a regular basis and also subject to half-ass service and maintenance from an otherwise supposed and highly reputable product manufacturer, is just not a big deal. In other words, a typical Saturday would entail dropping your Porsche off to be dildo'd around by Jose or Jimmy NewTech and then taking a big pile of your excess cash and just pissing on it and lighting it on fire and laughing diabolically just because your so stupidly wealthy that who gives a flying f%^k that your Porsche never runs right and you just burned up a pile of $ equivalent to NewTech's yearly salary!

[EPIQTodd]

Jim, what about the metal plate connected to the pistons? Is there any way to replace that, and should it be replaced? That thin plate seems the most worn of all the parts in the system.

[Perfectlap]

I hate to say this but...

People buy from Porsche because of their cars.

People who want the competent/customer friendly experience need to go to Lexus.

well at least that what JD Power always say..

[SD987]

Mach...tell us how you really feel.

I do find it interesting, that PCNA recently rolled out, their 'Premier Dealer' program, described as follows:

The Porsche Premier Dealer Program identifies the top 25 Porsche Dealers in North America. It recognizes and rewards those Porsche Dealerships that best embrace the ‘Porsche Business Model’ – achieving the highest performance among their peers in Brand utilization, product representation and the development of key ‘Porsche business drivers’; and in doing so, succeed as independent entrepreneurs who routinely exceed the expectations of their Porsche customers.

And which local SoCal dealer is a Premier Dealer? Wait for it....Hoehn.

I think that identifying dealers as 'Premier' is a good thing. It tells me who to avoid because they'll have inflated prices on parts and a disinterested view on providing excellent service. They will have a boatload of inventory though (love'em or hate'em you have to admit that Hoehn has that going for them).

More info on the Premier Dealer program here:

http://hoehn.porschedealer.com/about_us/premier.php

Other Premier Dealers in California

BH Porsche
Carlsen in Redwood City
McKenna in Norwalk
Sonnen in Mill Valley