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Old 06-12-2006, 05:20 AM   #1
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Hi Folks,

I'm about to be a first time Porsche owner. I've done some research on the car I want and I'd like to solicit some of your opinions about the car before I pull the trigger. I found a 99' with 11,600 miles. The price is very good. I understand that all of the mechanical warranties have ended so my reasoning in buying a 99' is to modify it mechanically to perform closer to the newer models without the $$$. I'll be doing my homework before modifying anything but have you guys done anything similar?

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Old 06-12-2006, 06:15 AM   #2
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First off, there is a general and growing concensus that Porsches that do not get driven are a risky proposition. I know that sounds strange, but these vehicles like to get driven.

Second, I think if you do a bit of searching on this board you'll find answers to most of your modification questions. From your post it seems that you are looking to add H.P. Unfortunately, this just isn't something that is easily or cheaply done with a Boxster. You can find numerous posts about exhausts, headers, power chips, and even superchargers. Most agree that an exhaust/header swap tends to add sound but not much power (despite the manufacturer claims) - at least on a $/hp basis. The jury's definately out on the power chip. There is at least one member who had a supercharger installed. I don't believe I've seen any recent posts on the outcome. But, you're still talking around $8,000 - $10,000.

Quite simply, upgrades aren't cheap and for what you'd spend on those upgrades you could probably buy an '03S with better features and alot more HP than a '99.

Lastly, never assume that a Boxster is going to be a winner just because it has low miles. Get a PPI.

P.S. - "Apparently it's true that you can't go home again, but you can shop there."
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Old 06-12-2006, 06:19 AM   #3
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One question..

Are you going to replace the engine with a 3.4 from the 911?

If so, then you need not be concerned about the sleeved engine fiasco that affected a number of '99' Boxsters.

However, if you intend to keep the current engine, then the build date on your car or knowledge of whether the original engine has been replaced would been an inportant consideration. The sleeved engine deal affected cars produced in the 10/98--2/99 time frame. Those dates are not precise, but fairly close.

Essentially, there was a deviation from standard motor assembly because the block supplier had breakdown in their machinery, forcing Porsche to use blocks that had previously been rejected for quality problems. The blocks were bored and manually sleeved; unfortuneately, the process was not error free and a number of the engines built this way failed as the sleeves slipped in the block.

Also, what mods were you thinking of?I know some have gone with a different intake, headers and exhaust but not sure of what the HP increase is out of those mods.
Jim??.......
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Old 06-12-2006, 06:21 AM   #4
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Hi,

Everything that denverpete says and add to it the fact that as of '00 the Cars switched to the eGas engine (greater displacement, different Intake, Exhaust, Fuel system, and specs) and engine management. This essentially means different everything. Trying to upgrade a non-eGas to eGas spec is going to be extremely difficult to impossible once you factor in the $$...

Happy Motoring!... Jim '99
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Old 06-12-2006, 07:52 AM   #5
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"First off, there is a general and growing concensus that Porsches that do not get driven are a risky proposition. I know that sounds strange, but these vehicles like to get driven."

This is exactly why, if you look at the Kelley Blue Book values for Porsches, the resale value of the car ACTUALLY GOES UP, the more miles you put on it.
Heck, I'd much rather have a '99 Box with 100,000 miles on it, wouldn't you? Preferably one that had been DE'd every other weekend, so that it had been "used as it was intended to be used."
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Old 06-12-2006, 08:30 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by MikenOH
However, if you intend to keep the current engine, then the build date on your car or knowledge of whether the original engine has been replaced would been an inportant consideration. The sleeved engine deal affected cars produced in the 10/98--2/99 time frame. Those dates are not precise, but fairly close.
spot on; this is CRITICAL. the problem with a low mile '99 is that you really don't know whether you will suffer a motor failure due to a manufacturing defect (porous block / slipped cylinder sleeve) that plagued some 1999 models. if the car had this problem, it generally failed before 30K miles. a '99 with, say, 50K on the odometer was likely safe. a '99 with only 10K on the odometer AND the original motor could be a recipe for disaster.
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Old 06-12-2006, 10:51 AM   #7
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I'd like to thank you all for that information. I'm going to ask the seller for the manfacture date but from what I've read so far I seem to be better off buying an 00' or later S model.
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Old 06-12-2006, 11:30 AM   #8
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^ yup.

get the S and forget the power mods.
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Old 06-12-2006, 11:51 AM   #9
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In a '99', as others have said...

I would not pay a premium for a low mileage car since it may be a disaster waiting to happen.

The 2000-2002 base car had the 217 HP 2.7L motor with 192 ft./lb of torque vs. the 201 HP/181 ft/lb of torque for the '99'. A little more umph, but not tons more. On the other hand, there have been constant improvments to the car over the years, from the interior to the chassis.

Depending on the price that's being asked for a low mileage '99' ($22k?) I would think you would be able to get a 2000S for roughly $5-7K more or a nice base car in the $23-25K range.

A Porsche certified car might be the way to go--you'll get a 2 year warranty I think, but expect to pay more.
Best of luck with it.
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Old 06-12-2006, 12:16 PM   #10
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Thanks MikenOH,

I'm truely bummed now as the manufacture date is 12/98 ... smack dab in the middle of the use of "bad" blocks. With no warranty I'm not going to risk the consequences. I found a nice 00' S with 22k miles The current owner is going to freak out.
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Old 06-12-2006, 12:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray
Thanks MikenOH,

I'm truely bummed now as the manufacture date is 12/98 ... smack dab in the middle of the use of "bad" blocks. With no warranty I'm not going to risk the consequences. I found a nice 00' S with 22k miles The current owner is going to freak out.
Good move.

Good luck!!
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Old 06-12-2006, 12:35 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Ray
Thanks MikenOH,

I'm truely bummed now as the manufacture date is 12/98 ... smack dab in the middle of the use of "bad" blocks. With no warranty I'm not going to risk the consequences. I found a nice 00' S with 22k miles The current owner is going to freak out.
You should know that the "bad blocks" thing is just a theory (heard it from a guy who knew a girl who dated an engineer at Porsche) - and I've heard plenty of other ones. Also, the engine problem most definately hasn't been limited to just the '98-99's. Buying an 00'S doesn't put you out of the woods in my opinion. But obviously the further you get from a product introduction, the better off you will be. The 00 has a bit more power and a much nicer shifter for around the same price. Personally, I'd save for the '03S.
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Old 06-12-2006, 12:58 PM   #13
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I think the 03 and 04's have some issues not present in the 00-02 somthing to do with a faulty redesign of the drive shaft.
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Old 06-12-2006, 01:20 PM   #14
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Sleeved engine issue--the facts from PCA

I've attached a link to the PCA tech Q&A section on Boxsters where Scott Slawson gets into the ugly details of this episode.

I'm not saying this guy has all the answers but he's in a better position to know what exactly the details where on this particular problem than certainly I am. As I've stated before, Porsche probably knows what engine serial numbers were built this way and what cars they went into, but they're not talking. I'd expect this treatment from GM but not from Porsche..



http://www.pca.org/tech/tech_qa_question.asp?id={F3EA752A-E838-43E5-A43D-BB4F445F5A8F}
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Old 06-12-2006, 01:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikenOH
I've attached a link to the PCA tech Q&A section on Boxsters where Scott Slawson gets into the ugly details of this episode.

I'm not saying this guy has all the answers but he's in a better position to know what exactly the details where on this particular problem than certainly I am. As I've stated before, Porsche probably knows what engine serial numbers were built this way and what cars they went into, but they're not talking. I'd expect this treatment from GM but not from Porsche..



http://www.pca.org/tech/tech_qa_question.asp?id={F3EA752A-E838-43E5-A43D-BB4F445F5A8F}
Hi,

Yes, there were a FEW engines which got thebad motors. But, these typically failed in the first couple thousand miles and Porsche contacted the owners to deal with it, mainly replacing the engines. This was a serious defect in the engine and didn't take long to show up at all. The highest mileage failure I have seen due to a sleeved engine was like 8600 mi. This means they've all been dealt with and the issue has gone the way of SmallPox...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99
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Old 06-12-2006, 03:05 PM   #16
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Unbelieveable! I spoke to the owner regarding these issues with the sleeves ... She confessed that the engine was replaced under warranty at 8k miles. Am I good now?
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Old 06-12-2006, 05:02 PM   #17
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Wink Well, at least now you can make an informed..

decision. From what I've read on various sites, the replacement engines that Porsche has furnished for various reasons have held up very well, but I will yield to my learned collegues for more informed views on that subject.


MNBoxster posted:
"Yes, there were a FEW engines which got thebad motors. But, these typically failed in the first couple thousand miles and Porsche contacted the owners to deal with it, mainly replacing the engines. This was a serious defect in the engine and didn't take long to show up at all. The highest mileage failure I have seen due to a sleeved engine was like 8600 mi. This means they've all been dealt with and the issue has gone the way of SmallPox.."

You would think that Jim's comments on the sleeved engines would be right on the money, but I have just recently corresponded with a guy that posted on Pete's board that had a simlar fate--car built 10/98, original owner with 15K miles and the engine fails for no apparent reason without warning. Was it a sleeve failure?-who knows. It would take $$$ to determine what happened but it sure fits the profile. His dealer and the local PCNA guy say their is nothing they can do, so he was looking at $10K for a motor or selling the car for parts.

To quote him:
"Car is
>>> mine since it was delivered new in Dec 98. Car was already on its
>>> way from
>>> the factory when I got involved and the car was delivered to
>>> Pioneer/Porsche in San Diego. A true garage queen. several concurs
>>> and 2
>>> wash'n shine first places and only 14,850 until last week when the
>>> catastopic engine failure occured. We did a Porsche driving
>>> experience and
>>> one autocross since the car was new.

This message is about 2 months old.


Jim, maybe smallpox is making comeback....
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Old 06-12-2006, 07:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikenOH
decision. From what I've read on various sites, the replacement engines that Porsche has furnished for various reasons have held up very well, but I will yield to my learned collegues for more informed views on that subject.


MNBoxster posted:
"Yes, there were a FEW engines which got thebad motors. But, these typically failed in the first couple thousand miles and Porsche contacted the owners to deal with it, mainly replacing the engines. This was a serious defect in the engine and didn't take long to show up at all. The highest mileage failure I have seen due to a sleeved engine was like 8600 mi. This means they've all been dealt with and the issue has gone the way of SmallPox.."

You would think that Jim's comments on the sleeved engines would be right on the money, but I have just recently corresponded with a guy that posted on Pete's board that had a simlar fate--car built 10/98, original owner with 15K miles and the engine fails for no apparent reason without warning. Was it a sleeve failure?-who knows. It would take $$$ to determine what happened but it sure fits the profile. His dealer and the local PCNA guy say their is nothing they can do, so he was looking at $10K for a motor or selling the car for parts.

To quote him:
"Car is
>>> mine since it was delivered new in Dec 98. Car was already on its
>>> way from
>>> the factory when I got involved and the car was delivered to
>>> Pioneer/Porsche in San Diego. A true garage queen. several concurs
>>> and 2
>>> wash'n shine first places and only 14,850 until last week when the
>>> catastopic engine failure occured. We did a Porsche driving
>>> experience and
>>> one autocross since the car was new.

This message is about 2 months old.


Jim, maybe smallpox is making comeback....
Hi,

Anything is possible, but if it was one of the few sleeved engines, it's waay outside the envelope where engine failure usually occurs - almost double, which I think doesn't fit the profile at all. More suspect is the DE and Auto-X since the post doesn't indicate at what mileage these were carried out. Then there's Driver error, some people are just harder on machinery than others.

At 15k mi. the list of possibilities is pretty long, but at this mileage, a sleeved engine would be pretty far down the list. It's become a catch-all for any failure where Oil is not leaked in massive amounts. But, these engines can hydrolock fairly easily if high-pressure washed or driven in hard rain. It could even have been that Hans or Ali just didn't tighten something to spec on the line. But, as I said, anything is possible...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

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