05-30-2006, 02:52 PM
|
#1
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Southern Cali
Posts: 494
|
Mmmm.....good points from Jim....you must drive quick to have a fast lap.
Smoothness is the key.
Sounds more of a driver issue (no pun intened). I run 40 psi on my stock tires at the track for the front and the rear. I also run 18 inch tires at the track too. I think the biggest thing would be to EASE into the peddle on exiting the turn.
Do a search, I know we've covered this similar situation before.
KRZ
|
|
|
05-30-2006, 09:37 PM
|
#2
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 3,308
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRZTACO
Mmmm.....good points from Jim....you must drive quick to have a fast lap.
Smoothness is the key.
Sounds more of a driver issue (no pun intened). I run 40 psi on my stock tires at the track for the front and the rear. I also run 18 inch tires at the track too. I think the biggest thing would be to EASE into the peddle on exiting the turn.
Do a search, I know we've covered this similar situation before.
KRZ
|
Hi,
It's typical to run a little higher pressure on a Track, but for Auto-X, often a little lower pressure will give better control, especially on a worn set, with stock suspension. I would stagger the pressure Front/Rear with the Rears having greater pressure (maybe 2 PSI than the Fronts), this will help reduce understeer. 18's should be fine, better in fact than 17's for Auto-X as Turn-in is improved. Great advice about getting on the Power easy!...
Happy Motoring!... Jim'99
Last edited by MNBoxster; 05-30-2006 at 09:39 PM.
|
|
|
06-01-2006, 06:57 AM
|
#3
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 585
|
I just ordered a set of Goodyear F1's so hopefully this will clarify if it is more of a tire issue (I am by no means discounting that it may be a driver issue). I will try to run the fronts at 38 and the rears at 40 at the next event to see what happens. Thank you for the advice and appreciate any other comments people may have!
|
|
|
06-01-2006, 09:30 AM
|
#4
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,709
|
the secret to Autocrossing which is harder than doing laps on a track,
is to do it ALLOT.
no amount of advice is ever going to work until you are comfortable in the car.
In essence you are doing two things at once:
1- LOOKING AHEAD!!!
2- and errr driving the car
Until you can do #2 to the point where it becomes instinct (most types of turns and slaloms in autocross become familiar after about 12 events and their respective approaches/set ups).....well yeah instinct won't take over the driver part and allow you to fully concentrate on where you are going two gates gates ahead vs. what's directly in front of you.
People get target fixation in Autocross because their hands are so full of movement and the feet are working and the eyes are darting left to right and
the lateral/long. g forces are breaking your concentration.
You'll have some "A HA!!!" moments (like brake or throttle at all times no in between pauses) after you have had many many laps of mistakes.
p.s.
Victoracers are popular, as are my Toyo-RA1 and the Michelin Pilot Cups.
But none really ideal for Autocross.
My advice is to NOT change tires until you have done another 6-9 autocross events. You want to make your big mistakes on the worn tires. Which means you'll have to concentrate on minimizing mistakes vs. setting fast laps.
Once you feel you can string a few consecutive laps without making any BIG mistkaes, then mount some tasty rubber. No sense ruining a set of $1000 tires with lumpy shoulders and flat spots that you'll be stuck with for the rest of the season.
__________________
GT3 Recaro Seats - Boxster Red
GT3 Aero / Carrera 18" 5 spoke / Potenza RE-11
Fabspeed Headers & Noise Maker
BORN: March 2000 - FINLAND
IMS#1 REPLACED: April 2010 - NEW JERSEY -- LNE DUAL ROW
Last edited by Perfectlap; 06-01-2006 at 09:38 AM.
|
|
|
06-01-2006, 10:33 AM
|
#5
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 380
|
After just finishing a EVO auto-x school
The main lessons were:
Look ahead (as perfect lap said). Not at the next cone but farther along the course to get you ready and in place for the next big course change. It might be at a right angle to where you're going. Don't fixate, just scan to prepare yourself. Ona slalom, the first cone is the key; if you blow that you're just trying to recover. if you get it right, you can knock out the remaining ones smoothly.
Brake in a straight line; get all you heavy breaking done before the turn--sounds like you're still turning while braking and the rear comes loose.
Brake late: the boxster has great brakes; don't loose too much speed breaking early.
Walk the course before you driving it and then visualize with your eyes closed.
While in line for run, scan the course as much as you can so you know what your first course changees will be.
Tires: PS2's aren't bad but the reality--my experience in 6 years at it--is that it's better to get a set of used wheels and put some R compount tires (ie victoracers )on them; or V710's if the track is close by. I really don't care for the soft sidewalls on the PS2 even with additional pressure. the victoracers have much firmer sidewalls and turn in is more precise. I'm guessing the Victoracers are worth 2 seconds but first you have to stop spinning, smooth out your steering inputs and get most of the braking done in a straight line before the turn.
And of course you have to practice and get to know the limits of your car.
BTW, I 'd recomend the EVO schools; expensive but it's a lot of hands on driving with an instructor. You find out very quickly what you're not doing right and how a good driver navigates a course.
Good luck with it
__________________
2013 Boxster S
2006 Boxster--sold
1999 Boxster--sold
|
|
|
06-01-2006, 01:32 PM
|
#6
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 3,308
|
Hi,
WOW! - Great Advice from PerfectLap and MikeOH - Glad to see we have so many Auto-Xers in the Group.
One other thing to add, part of the learning experience is trying things, but one hesitates because they don't want to ruin the Run.
Well, if you hit a Cone, think of it as a Free Run because the Time Penalty will pretty much put you in the Tank. So, for the rest of the Run, try a couple things like carrying in more speed/braking later, different line to a turn, etc. Don't just give up because you messed up, salvage the Run by gaining some additional experience. Remember: No Cones... No Glory!
Happy Motoring!... Jim'99
Last edited by MNBoxster; 06-01-2006 at 03:19 PM.
|
|
|
06-01-2006, 01:35 PM
|
#7
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 585
|
I need to change my tires as I am down to the wear mark and they are showing cracks from being 4 years old. They aren't exactly safe to drive on the streets especially if it is raining out.
Race tires won't happen for another couple years as I have a lot of learning to do at this point.
I had success with a RX-7 and a M3 and this is quite a challenge for me, but it sure is a lot of fun!!! I'll be sure to give a review of the F1's once I get them worn in and on the track.
|
|
|
06-01-2006, 01:48 PM
|
#8
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 380
|
+1 on what Jim said..
If you get off the course or catch a couple of cones , don't give up--finish the course and you will continue to learn on the drive.
One other thing the instructors pased along that made sense--admittedly these guys were experts. Don't necessarily take the first run slow as a tour of the course, but go through it with gusto. The rational with the big guys is that if you only get 7 or 8 runs, you're essentially throwing one away by taking" the tour". I tried their suggestions and think if you do the course walk right and get the track image in your head, you can use that first run as more than recon..
finally, don't be afraid to tinker with air pressures; i finally learned this a few years back and it does make a difference. Get a good gauge, some chalk and see how far over the side wall is rolling. The boxster has tremendous balance and with experience, you'll learn to steer with the throttle.
__________________
2013 Boxster S
2006 Boxster--sold
1999 Boxster--sold
|
|
|
06-04-2006, 05:47 PM
|
#9
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 998
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikenOH
Tires: PS2's aren't bad but the reality--my experience in 6 years at it--is that it's better to get a set of used wheels and put some R compount tires (ie victoracers )on them; or V710's if the track is close by.
|
For the track maybe ( have not done a DE yet). However for autox, my opinion is get better at car control with street tires, r-comps can just hide bad habits.
Much of the the points already brought up are really good, Evo School is a blast (I have taken Phase One three times now, waiting for a Phase Tow to come our way) and a good investment.
__________________
kabel
Orlando - 99 BMW M Coupe (autocross toy), '11 Mazdaspeed 3 (dog hauler), '99 10AE Miata (the new daily driver)
|
|
|
06-05-2006, 04:18 PM
|
#10
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 182
|
Lots of great advice here
I've only started to autocross the S this year but have autocrossed off an on for the last 30 years so I can hopefully shed some light on the differences I feel in the S vs. some other cars.
Tire pressure:
For the longest time we always pumped up the tires figuring we would prevent squirm and tread roll but as tires got better it became obvious that we didn't need to compensate nearly as much. With the S I run very conservative pressures and have been able to get the car balanced well after 1 or 2 runs. I start out 34/36 then adjust as the course dictates. Sometimes I'll drop as much as 3 more lbs out of the fronts but usually leave the rears alone. Tuning usually involves getting to the point where the front doesn't push and I can rotate the car with the gas. This last weekend I ended up running 33/36 warm and it was perfect. The tires really don't heat up that much since you get at least 5 minutes between runs for them to cool. it's not like a track day.
Technique:
Smooth on the DE (track) is a great thing. Smooth on an autocross = slow..... Autocross is all about pitching and tossing the car around tight, slow speed turns as fast as you can. High speed in, HARD straight line braking, turn, Hard on the gas kicking out the rear to close down the angle on the turn and power out to the next cone. Done right you steer that car as much with the throttle as with the steering wheel. The Boxster is so easy to rotate (and rotate fast) that it can get away from you quickly so be prepared to over slide and over compensate while you learn the techniques and the car.
Tires:
So far I think the absolute best bang for the buck in the stock classes are the Falken Azenis RT-615's
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findTireProductCategoryDetailBrnd.do?tpc=FALHZA&tp=Passenger%2FPerformance
So far I have used PS2's and PS N1's in 18" and the RT-615's in 17" (225 fronts) and the Falken's kick serious ass! The PS2's provide a lot of grip but the soft sidewalls make it tough to manage the car. The PS N1's have great sidewalls but are lacking in ultimate grip. The RT-615's have killer grip, stand up well to the heat and have firm enough sidewall to handle the lower pressures. On top of all that they are relatively cheap!
I've seen a number of references to R compound tires but beware, many clubs will put you in the P (prepared) class with those tires and that puts you up against some pretty serious competition. To stay in the Stock classes you need a non-R spec DOT tire so forget about Victoracers, Pilot cups and the like.
And the last thing to remember is you can always learn. For the life of me I couldn't get close to a guy in our club running basically an identical car on identical tires. For the last 2 events he has been as much as 2 seconds faster than me. I'm always second with the next person usually a full second off my pace but he is absolutely unreal. After the last run this Saturday we decided we had some time for some fun runs. He pulls up next to me and asks if I want to ride with him. I learned more in the 69 seconds in his car than I learned in all my 10 runs that day. I learned that the Boxster can defy physics in the right hands. I also learned that it takes a special kind of person to take their closest competitor and show them how to be faster. Porsche drivers truly are a special breed, "There is no substitute"
__________________
Cogito Ergo Zoom!
I Think, therefore I go fast
Current Porsches:
2004 Cayenne Turbo
2003 Boxster S
Past Porsches:
1989 911 turbo
1981 911SC
1984 944
1973 914
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:57 AM.
| |