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Old 05-25-2016, 11:22 AM   #1
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Tiptronic transmission oil change

I am planning to do ATF and filter change in the next few weeks but I am getting conflicting views on ATF quantity. The manual states the car ( 2.5 Base) requires 9.5 litres but I have heard people saying that even if you drain down you only need 4 litres to the fill. Has anyone performed this change and tell me the quantity used
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Old 05-25-2016, 11:38 AM   #2
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I am planning to do ATF and filter change in the next few weeks but I am getting conflicting views on ATF quantity. The manual states the car ( 2.5 Base) requires 9.5 litres but I have heard people saying that even if you drain down you only need 4 litres to the fill. Has anyone performed this change and tell me the quantity used
Thanks
Walshie; I do not have a Tip, but as with all auto transmissions, you will only drain what is in the sump. The torque converter will not drain. So I would think the 4 liters is probably pretty close.
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Old 05-25-2016, 12:22 PM   #3
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You will typically get less than half of the total capacity out during a gravity drain.
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Old 05-25-2016, 12:27 PM   #4
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Hello Walshie,

i also have an MT, but i have a workshop manual. This says a new filling with converter is 9.5 litres and the change quantity is only 3.5 litres.

So if you want to chenge the complete AT fluid i would recommend to do it with a special system that is able to change the complete fluid in the system. There are different systems out there. For example a german system made by Tim Eckart that also uses a cleaner to clean the complete system and then flushes it. More infos: Englisch

Regards, Markus
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Old 05-25-2016, 01:38 PM   #5
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Hello Walshie,

i also have an MT, but i have a workshop manual. This says a new filling with converter is 9.5 litres and the change quantity is only 3.5 litres.

So if you want to chenge the complete AT fluid i would recommend to do it with a special system that is able to change the complete fluid in the system. There are different systems out there. For example a german system made by Tim Eckart that also uses a cleaner to clean the complete system and then flushes it. More infos: Englisch

Regards, Markus
That system, like many others, will not work on the Tip because it connects via the transmission cooler lines, which the Tiptronic lacks (it has an integrated oil to coolant heat exchanger that is part of the transmission, so the are no transmission fluid to cooler lines, only external engine coolant lines).

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Old 05-25-2016, 01:58 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by JFP in PA View Post
That system, like many others, will not work on the Tip because it connects via the transmission cooler lines, which the Tiptronic lacks (it has an integrated oil to coolant heat exchanger that is part of the transmission, so the are no transmission fluid to cooler lines, only external engine coolant lines).

What is the method to flush the torque convertor and is it necessary when changing the fluid?
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:03 PM   #7
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What is the method to flush the torque convertor and is it necessary when changing the fluid?
The only way to flush out the converter (without removing the transmission from the car) is repeated fill, run, and dump cycles until the draining fluid is clean.
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Old 05-25-2016, 03:26 PM   #8
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The only way to flush out the converter (without removing the transmission from the car) is repeated fill, run, and dump cycles until the draining fluid is clean.
So is it necessary to completely flush it or does the new fluid balance out the old fluid or does the filter catch enough to make a difference?
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Old 05-25-2016, 04:52 PM   #9
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Depends on the condition of the fluid. Auto transmissions should have partial fluid changes every 30 - 50k miles depending on service type if you are going to change at all. If the first service is done at >100k then by that time there is usually so much clutch friction material in the fluid that the trans will usually fail shortly after fluid change. Of course after 100k the friction material in the fluid will start to plug the filter and trans will likely start having issues anyway.

Last edited by 911monty; 05-25-2016 at 05:13 PM. Reason: further thought
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Old 05-25-2016, 06:34 PM   #10
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The original Porsche maintenance schedule said the fluid was "lifetime", but the transmission manufacturer has said it's best to change it every 50k miles or so.

I did mine at the beginning of 2015 (my Boxster S had 73K miles on it)

First, you need this:

http://www.amazon.com/Pentosin-1058206-ATF-1-Synthetic-AutomotiveTransmission/dp/B00JMAQ0LW?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

Pretty sure that was the best price I could find when I did it, but look around. I would refrain from using any other fluid even if they say that it's compatible. You can get single quart (liter) bottles from O'Reilly auto parts. Probably other places too, but getting that big bottle from Amazon worked out cheapest for me.

That should be more than enough to do a fluid change (without flushing the converter). The fill process can be messy (you pump fluid in until it comes raining down out of the fill port). If you want to also flush the converter, there was a thread on the forums that discussed flushing the converter using successive fill and drains. I think 3 or 4 times would give you a pretty thorough flush. I just did a drain and fill with a new filter and planned to do it again in 15K-20K miles.

You'll also need the filter and gasket set. Got mine from Pelican.

You'll need a pump to pump in the new fluid. I bought mine at Northern Tool and Equipment (under $10). Performance Tool "Quart and Gallon Fluid Pump" #W1139.

Plus sockets to get the drain plug and fill plug out as well as the bolts holding the oil pan on. The fill plug is a big one (17mm hex) and I believe the drain plug is a standard size too (by standard I mean the same across all the Tips), but the bolts holding the oil pan on can be one of 3 different sizes (all the same). The bolts holding my oil pan on were a different size than those listed in the 101 projects book and different than what some others on the forums said that theirs used. Best to get under there and check before you start the job. I believe you have to pull that big aluminum plate off to see them though. My rear main seal had been leaking and many of the forward pan bolts were packed solid with dirt. I used a dental pick to clear them out.

Be sure you loosen that big fill plug at the beginning. You need to be able to fill the transmission and the time to find out that the plug won't come loose is not when you are getting ready to fill it.

You'll have to have the car level, and up in the air when you do the fill. I used 4 jack stands, one under each jack point, and an extra one and my big jack under the engine just to play it safe.

Lastly, you'll need a way to measure the transmission temperature. You have to do the final fill with the tranny between 90 and 100 F. I picked up an infrared laser thermometer at Harbor Freight for $15 and that worked great.

I plan to do another fluid and filter change this fall. At that point I'll only have 15K-20K miles on it since the first change, but I already have all the tools and it's under $100 to do the whole job. I like to be proactive.

Sorry for the long post - hope this helps!

P.S. you can see the whole procedure in an episode of Wheeler Dealers that's available to view on YouTube. They change the fluid and filter on a 2000 Boxster S.
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Last edited by BirdDog; 05-25-2016 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 05-25-2016, 11:07 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by JFP in PA View Post
The only way to flush out the converter (without removing the transmission from the car) is repeated fill, run, and dump cycles until the draining fluid is clean.
OK, that is bad news. So you can only dilute the ATF. And if you have a volume of 9.5 litres and only get ould approx. 3.5 litres that is a never endng process.

Mercedes also had this lifetime filling ATs. In 2008 or 2009 they decided to bring back drainage bolts on the torque converters, because the lifetime didn't work and the cab drivers were really pissed by broken ATs. Hope the lifetime filling works better on Porsche AT.

Regards, Markus
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Old 05-26-2016, 02:04 AM   #12
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OK, that is bad news. So you can only dilute the ATF. And if you have a volume of 9.5 litres and only get ould approx. 3.5 litres that is a never endng process.

Mercedes also had this lifetime filling ATs. In 2008 or 2009 they decided to bring back drainage bolts on the torque converters, because the lifetime didn't work and the cab drivers were really pissed by broken ATs. Hope the lifetime filling works better on Porsche AT.

Regards, Markus
The real trick here is to service the trans regularly as mentioned by another poster above, which will continuously dilute the old fluid with new, getting at least some of the debris out of the trans. If you let one of these go 75-90K miles, it is going to be full of crud and harder to clean out.
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Old 05-26-2016, 05:26 AM   #13
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Not having tools or a place to do maintenance can make the process described here costly. I had mine serviced at 86K and it was just shy of $400 and that was at an indy. Doing it 3-4X would be cheaper than a new trans but it's still a chunk of change. I had always heard there was a pressure unit that flushed the fluid out but it sounds like that was an internet myth. It's disappointing that Porsche doesn't have a tool to flush the trans and would leave it to having the customer pay for 3-4 changes just to get new fluid. I thought AAMCO had a pressurized system to drain auto trans's.

Last edited by Luv2Box; 05-26-2016 at 05:30 AM.
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Old 05-26-2016, 06:19 AM   #14
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Luv2box; There are several trans flush systems out there that use pumps to flush the trans. Some attach directly to the filter pick up tube and pump through the trans. They do a good job of removing the old fluid.
Unfortunately auto trans have very complex valve bodies that control fluid flow and pressure which controls shift points. There are also clutch packs for EACH gear. These clutches are very thin and are the source for a lot of the debris circulating within the transmission. A cause of failure on a long neglected trans is the removal of The friction material circulating in the fluid. This material helps keep the clutches from slipping. When it is removed the clutches can begin to slip in the clean fluid and then the trans will fail. More than a few well meaning car guys have serviced the trans only to have it fail.
Change your auto trans fluid regularly and it will last much longer. I have a BMW with lifetime trans fluid. I change it regularly. Drop the pan, change the filter, add 4 qts. Remember they also recommend 10k oil changes.

PS. I mentioned the valve body earlier. The only way to clean is to use a system such as JFP mentions, that moves fluid through the entire trans.

Last edited by 911monty; 05-26-2016 at 07:02 AM. Reason: PS.
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Old 05-26-2016, 11:15 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by BirdDog View Post
The original Porsche maintenance schedule said the fluid was "lifetime", but the transmission manufacturer has said it's best to change it every 50k miles or so.

I did mine at the beginning of 2015 (my Boxster S had 73K miles on it)

First, you need this:

http://www.amazon.com/Pentosin-1058206-ATF-1-Synthetic-AutomotiveTransmission/dp/B00JMAQ0LW?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

Pretty sure that was the best price I could find when I did it, but look around. I would refrain from using any other fluid even if they say that it's compatible. You can get single quart (liter) bottles from O'Reilly auto parts. Probably other places too, but getting that big bottle from Amazon worked out cheapest for me.

That should be more than enough to do a fluid change (without flushing the converter). The fill process can be messy (you pump fluid in until it comes raining down out of the fill port). If you want to also flush the converter, there was a thread on the forums that discussed flushing the converter using successive fill and drains. I think 3 or 4 times would give you a pretty thorough flush. I just did a drain and fill with a new filter and planned to do it again in 15K-20K miles.

You'll also need the filter and gasket set. Got mine from Pelican.

You'll need a pump to pump in the new fluid. I bought mine at Northern Tool and Equipment (under $10). Performance Tool "Quart and Gallon Fluid Pump" #W1139.

Plus sockets to get the drain plug and fill plug out as well as the bolts holding the oil pan on. The fill plug is a big one (17mm hex) and I believe the drain plug is a standard size too (by standard I mean the same across all the Tips), but the bolts holding the oil pan on can be one of 3 different sizes (all the same). The bolts holding my oil pan on were a different size than those listed in the 101 projects book and different than what some others on the forums said that theirs used. Best to get under there and check before you start the job. I believe you have to pull that big aluminum plate off to see them though. My rear main seal had been leaking and many of the forward pan bolts were packed solid with dirt. I used a dental pick to clear them out.

Be sure you loosen that big fill plug at the beginning. You need to be able to fill the transmission and the time to find out that the plug won't come loose is not when you are getting ready to fill it.

You'll have to have the car level, and up in the air when you do the fill. I used 4 jack stands, one under each jack point, and an extra one and my big jack under the engine just to play it safe.

Lastly, you'll need a way to measure the transmission temperature. You have to do the final fill with the tranny between 90 and 100 F. I picked up an infrared laser thermometer at Harbor Freight for $15 and that worked great.

I plan to do another fluid and filter change this fall. At that point I'll only have 15K-20K miles on it since the first change, but I already have all the tools and it's under $100 to do the whole job. I like to be proactive.

Sorry for the long post - hope this helps!

P.S. you can see the whole procedure in an episode of Wheeler Dealers that's available to view on YouTube. They change the fluid and filter on a 2000 Boxster S.
Hi birdDog
I have seen the wheeler dealers episode and all looks good.
Does the Pentosin AF1 mix with the OE fluid OK. Over here in the UK porsche will only sell their At fluid in 20 litre cans and it's bloody expensive.
Thanks
Walshie
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Old 05-26-2016, 12:22 PM   #16
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I would leave the tranny alone. If it aint broke don't fix it. You will likely run into problems if you mess with it.
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Old 05-26-2016, 12:54 PM   #17
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I would leave the tranny alone. If it aint broke don't fix it. You will likely run into problems if you mess with it.
You are more likely to run into problems if you don't service it, and once it is "broke", you are in for some major expenses and headaches.
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Old 05-26-2016, 01:24 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by 911monty View Post
Luv2box; There are several trans flush systems out there that use pumps to flush the trans. Some attach directly to the filter pick up tube and pump through the trans. They do a good job of removing the old fluid.
Unfortunately auto trans have very complex valve bodies that control fluid flow and pressure which controls shift points. There are also clutch packs for EACH gear. These clutches are very thin and are the source for a lot of the debris circulating within the transmission. A cause of failure on a long neglected trans is the removal of The friction material circulating in the fluid. This material helps keep the clutches from slipping. When it is removed the clutches can begin to slip in the clean fluid and then the trans will fail. More than a few well meaning car guys have serviced the trans only to have it fail.
Change your auto trans fluid regularly and it will last much longer. I have a BMW with lifetime trans fluid. I change it regularly. Drop the pan, change the filter, add 4 qts. Remember they also recommend 10k oil changes.

PS. I mentioned the valve body earlier. The only way to clean is to use a system such as JFP mentions, that moves fluid through the entire trans.
Good to know, thanks.
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Old 05-26-2016, 09:12 PM   #19
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Walshie - the Pentosin ATF-1 that I posted a link for -IS- the OEM fluid. It's what came in your transmission originally.

There are one or two compatible fluids (with numeric designations that I can't remember - one is listed in the 101 projects book) but I would only use the original stuff in mine.

Be careful. I think there is another Pentosin fluid that looks similar (same color bottle) with a similar name, but it's the wrong stuff.

The back of the correct bottle will have a Porsche part number listed (999.917.547.00) in the Meets and Exceeds section. The bottle also says it's good for 120,000km. Don't believe it!

I'm not telling you to change your fluid. Just offering advice based on my experience if you should decide to do it. Factor that in with what you are hearing from others on the forum before making a decision.
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Old 05-28-2016, 10:37 AM   #20
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Walshie - the Pentosin ATF-1 that I posted a link for -IS- the OEM fluid. It's what came in your transmission originally.

There are one or two compatible fluids (with numeric designations that I can't remember - one is listed in the 101 projects book) but I would only use the original stuff in mine.

Be careful. I think there is another Pentosin fluid that looks similar (same color bottle) with a similar name, but it's the wrong stuff.

The back of the correct bottle will have a Porsche part number listed (999.917.547.00) in the Meets and Exceeds section. The bottle also says it's good for 120,000km. Don't believe it!

I'm not telling you to change your fluid. Just offering advice based on my experience if you should decide to do it. Factor that in with what you are hearing from others on the forum before making a decision.
Thanks for all the info. I have managed to get a great deal from a local porsche indi. They are going to do the whole thing for me for £86 + 20% vat (tax) so I have booked it in for that and a minor service at the same time, at that price I would be a fool to do it myself.
Thanks again for all your help and advice
Walshie

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