Cayman announced

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

"Porsche has been successful by "not" deciding for the customer what he/she will pay.... for anything."

Hmmm, Porsche has been successful for about 9 yrs now, starting in 1997. By coincidence, that is when they brought out a "bargain" Porsche, ie the Boxster. When the Box came out, the value proposition was clear and folks bought them in droves. As the prices increased, sales started to tail off.

I speculate about problems for Porsche in the future.

I see the Cayeene sales decline. I see the Panamera as a limited flop. I see the Cayman and its offshoots creating product distinction issues.

In general, I see a general delcine in profitability for Porsche.

why?

The name is Piech. The sin is arrogance. The confounding variable is VW.

We'll see!

IMHO!

Hi,

Good thoughts, but it is the cayenne which turned the corner for Porsche. Total Boxster production to date is less than 150,000 units, maybe another 20,000 with the '07 models. That equates to 17,000 units/year over 10 years and that cannot spell big profits.

The fact that Porsche can produce the 996/986, 997/987 and the Cayenne and Toureg from the same Parts Bins that has yielded so much saving. R&D costs can be ammortized over a broader Product Range resulting in lower per unit costs, not to mention that Valmet can produce these things much cheaper than Porsche themselves once Brick and Mortor costs are factored in. This is where most of their profitability has come in the past few years.

So far as Porsche's decline, I agree. There are two schools of thought in such times, try to prolong the life of the Golden Goose by not becoming too greedy, or grab all that you can on the premise that the Goose is going to die anyway someday, so get all you can while you can. Looks like Porsche has chosen the latter...

[Perfectlap]

No way, the Boxster DEFINITELY turned the corner for Porsche.

Agreed that the Cayenne is a much bigger success story for Porsche. But had it not been for the Boxster Porsche wouldn't have had the luxury of dragging their feet to unveil the top notch rebranded Touraeg. Those Boxster dollars brought in allot more money for R&D across all their models. Who knows maybe it was Porsche's know how that made the VW SUV as good as it is. I highly doubt VW would have been able to produce an SUV on their own that lapped the N-Ring in the same time as the BoxsterS. A collaboration that was as lucrative as it was successful on track. Who knows if Porsche would have even been in a position to get a good deal out of that colloboration if they were still only selling minimal numbers of 911 and 968's.

Look up the Porsche sales in North America in the early 90's.
I recall an interview with the CEO of PNA stating that they sold less
than 1,000 911's in one particular year.
They sold that many Caymans in January alone.

The Boxster is no Miata in terms of sales but it was certainly a make or break momment for a company that would probably have been taken over instead of
buying a piece of VW.

[Brucelee]

The Cayeene has been a success for Porsche, no doubt.

However, they were already the highest ROI company when the Cayeene debuted, thanks to the Boxster and then, the re-vitalized 911.

To be fair, these guys have made many good decisions over the last 9 yrs. They have also made some lousy ones in the previous 10 yrs.

So, lets not make them out to be omnipotent, they are not.

I do think the Cayman will ultimately bring very very few new purchasers to Porsche.

Ditto the coming 4 seater.

I could be wrong, they haven't asked me for my opinion anyway.

PS-their quality could be WAY better, as well as their attitude.

[lexuspilot]

I never thought of the Boxster as a "bargain" porsche. That was the 914.


I was not arguing the Boxster being a turning point. It was obvious by the hype that it would be a big thing for Porsche. I think they call that hitting the nail on the head. The Cayman has not had the same emotional impact on the general public. As said above though, the Cayman seems to be targeted at those wanting a hard top go-kart roadster. Mazda had a MX5 coupe at an autoshow..for similar reasons.


There was a Solstice with a hard top and 500hp for Rhys Millen to drive in Autoweek last week. All the racers want hardtops.

[jangobox]

[QUOTE=Brucelee]

I do think the Cayman will ultimately bring very very few new purchasers to Porsche.

Ditto the coming 4 seater.

I could be wrong, they haven't asked me for my opinion anyway.

{QUOTE]

I actually cannot wait for a 4-seater sedan by Porsche. I love the Maserati QuatroP car. I hope they make something similar in those lines, but of course with better performance! :dance:

[Brucelee]

"I actually cannot wait for a 4-seater sedan by Porsche. I love the Maserati QuatroP car. I hope they make something similar in those lines, but of course with better performance"

Based on the photos, I think the car will be stunning and massively overpriced.

Hence, I don't think it will sell that well.

[Onad]

All good points on this topic: I do think the 4-door will be a success- despite its outlandish price point. Nonetheless, it is notable that Porsche is quite late to the table with the 4-door: the Maserati Quattroporte and the 4-door Mercedes CLS are going to be tough competition.

Overall, as Porsche sells more vehicles they will have to be more competitive in regards to price and performance numbers. Right now people are willing to pay a premium for the name "Porsche"-- associating it with exclusivity. Bad news for Porsche is that exclusivity goes down as sales go up, so Porsche is likely to find it harder to "charge" for exclusivity in the future when that exclusivity is based more on history than present day sales.

Aside from the exclusivity issue, Porsche also has more competition in the US at all price points than it has in the past. From the Z4/M4 and Lotus on the Boxster/Cayman side, to the V8 Aston Vantage and Gallardo on the 911 side, Porsche has strong competition that did not previously exist- at least in the US market. From what I understand, things are going to get even tougher with Lexus and Audi reportedly entering the 911 market and Acura returning to the market with a new NSX in the next couple of years.

On the plus side, Porsche does a remarkable job of keeping models alive for a long time and stretching out their development costs. As much as the 997 and 987/Cayman are an improvement over the 996 and 986, Porsche didn’t have to invest too much money to make the transition from 996 to 997 and 986 to 987. Despite the marketing, the 987/997 are not truly “new” cars and it's easy to find components on each from the 1997 Boxster and 1999 996. The real test of Porsche will be the next 911 and Boxster/Cayman. Will they be developed alongside each other and enjoy economies of scale by sharing components, or will they grow into completely separate and distinct models? I don’t know too much about the car business, but I would guess these decisions have already been made. It should be interesting to watch.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

No way, the Boxster DEFINITELY turned the corner for Porsche.

Agreed that the Cayenne is a much bigger success story for Porsche. But had it not been for the Boxster Porsche wouldn't have had the luxury of dragging their feet to unveil the top notch rebranded Touraeg. Those Boxster dollars brought in allot more money for R&D across all their models. Who knows maybe it was Porsche's know how that made the VW SUV as good as it is. I highly doubt VW would have been able to produce an SUV on their own that lapped the N-Ring in the same time as the BoxsterS. A collaboration that was as lucrative as it was successful on track. Who knows if Porsche would have even been in a position to get a good deal out of that colloboration if they were still only selling minimal numbers of 911 and 968's.

Look up the Porsche sales in North America in the early 90's.
I recall an interview with the CEO of PNA stating that they sold less
than 1,000 911's in one particular year.
They sold that many Caymans in January alone.

The Boxster is no Miata in terms of sales but it was certainly a make or break momment for a company that would probably have been taken over instead of
buying a piece of VW.

Hi,

Sorry, but you just don't have your facts straight. Boxster Sales peaked in '00/'01 with 27,865 Units produced. By '04/'05 production dropped to 12,988 units or a 55% reduction from the peak year. These are the last figures released by Porsche.

Also, when you look at just the North American Market (Porsche's Largest Market by far), Porsche sold a total of 31,356 units, but the Cayenne accounted for 17,216 of these (or 55% of all Sales) while the Boxster and 911 Sales combined accounted for only 14,140 Units. So, if one were to look strictly at the data, it appears that Porsche has now become primarily an SUV Manufacturer which also produces some Sports Cars. Combined Boxster and 911 Sales were down some 17%, the 3rd year of such declines.

One other significant factor, maybe the most significant, relates to North American Sales as well, namely the currency exchange rates of the Dollar against the Euro. Porsche profited from this to the tune of 14% of their total profit, not because of anything they did, but solely due to the World Currency Markets.

Fact is, the Boxster improved Cash Flows for Porsche, but had minimal effect on profits. If the Cayenne takes a nose-dive, Porsche will go right along with it...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Brucelee]

"If the Cayenne takes a nose-dive, Porsche will go right along with it..."

I would put even money on this happening.