Too much oil??!?!?!? - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Rondog · 05-14-2006, 09:26 PM

OK... this is a newbie question.....

i had the oil changed when i purchased my car (10500 mi) ---- I had it done at the dealer ( $280 thank you very much....wretch!) The 987 has a digital oil monitor and now mine reads full bars----From the look of the meter it is full at all but one bar. Do i have too much oil?

Rondog

MNBoxster · 05-14-2006, 09:58 PM

Hi,

The short answer is YES. But, if all it is is a single Bar over, it's nothing to worry about. Problem is, if it's at the Top Bar, it could be much higher with no additional Bar(s) to measure it.

In these Cars, it's better to run a little on the Low side rather than the High side. This is because with almost 9 Qts. it's gonna still have plenty of Oil, even if it is a tad Low. But, if it's High, this can foul the Plugs and lead to premature death of the Cats and O² Sensors.

My suggestion is to drive it for a day, park it on level ground overnight and then check it by using the Countdown Oil Measure by just turning the Ignition to ON (but without going all the way to Start). The Digital Gauge is notoriously inaccurate (though some are OK) and you may find that the Oil had just not fully circulated and so was registering a bit High.

If it is still high, return to the Dealer and have them drain a little. You don't have a dipstick and so can't use the MityVac Extraction Method.

Ask the Dealer how much they put in (which probably means nothing because they won't know emphatically, nor did they measure how much they drained out). Also, be sure to ask them if they changed the Filter (for $280 they Bloody well should have) along with the Change (if not, they could have overfilled the system by NOT allowing for the Oil which didn't drain from the Filter). I am so distrustful of Dealer Oil Changes, not to mention the $$, that I would never let them do it, but that's me. I would also wear my size 12's and raise a stink considering they are the Dealer and they charged you $280 to NOT get it right. Oil Changes are not Rocket Science, they really have no excuse to have been so careless if it turns out they did in fact overfill it. Worse case, they'll give you a discount on the next service or Oil Change. Hope this helps...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99 (thanking God he has a Dipstick)

Rondog · 05-14-2006, 10:20 PM

Jim,

Thanks for the input... I will call the dealer tomorrow and ask them as well....
Nothing like adding injury to insult..paying thru yur ass for the Oil Change and then having them do it incorrectly......life aint always fair!

I am guessing there will be a lot of hemming/hawing and denials----we'll see...

Brucelee · 05-15-2006, 05:39 AM

This is all assuming the little bars device is accurate.

I for one don't trust these devices but without a dispstick, what is our choice?

dezigns · 05-26-2006, 08:35 PM

hi all...any update on this particular incident? i just got the first oil change on my 987S at the dealer as well...now I have full bars (all bars highlighted, even the top small one). I think I will call the dealer tomorrow...is this anything to worry about?

what was the outcome of the post topic? did they siphon oil out?

986Jim · 05-27-2006, 06:56 AM

987 doesn't have a dip stick? Thats bizzare.

Brucelee · 05-27-2006, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 986Jim

987 doesn't have a dip stick? Thats bizzare.

Neither do the new BMW 3 series. This is a trend, which I do not like.

In addition to having to trust these fundamentally unreliable electronics and sensors (with our $15K motors at risk) we cannot use an evacuator to remove oil.

To me, it is the continuing effort to make sure we MUST go back to the dealer for service.

Rondog · 05-27-2006, 12:19 PM

i called and talked to the service manager expressing my concern at the "full bars".... He told me that he was confident that the tech did not overfill AND that he encourages his techs to fill to the top bar--- i aint making that up....

He also told me that i could bring it by and they would double check it..."from the back". I dont know what that means and while i should have asked...... i didn't.

I have not had the time to drop by...so i continue to drive with "full bars" -- i have not noticed any performance difference, but still have that lingering concern.

This also brings up another point that has been discussed --- DEALER SERVICE---

While i am not one to necessarily rag on the dealer for having higher (sometimes MUCH higher prices) on parts and service-- The one thing i DO expect is superior customer service and HONESTY. ---(naive..am i!)
I must sadly say that my few encounters with my local dealer has not lived up to my expectations....While they are courteous... i am often put on hold for long periods..... When i leave messages, they never seem to call back promptly when they even call back at all--- When i had my car serviced, i asked for a pricing on a couple of other services----- (ding removal and windstop installation) and had to call them back 2 times before they remembered to quote it....(they finally quoted the windstop on my service receipt.... i called and had it requoted a few weeks later when i decided to do it and the new quote was $100 cheaper) My last car was a MB e320 and the dealer, a HUGE dealer, made me feel like a million bucks. --- My Porsche dealer makes me feel as if i am a bother to them.--- Maybe i am being a little harsh here and maybe i have not had enough experience with them, but i just expected more.

I run a client oriented business and i am very sensitive about giving my clients MORE than they expect. These guys need a refresher course in customer relations.

RD

MNBoxster · 05-27-2006, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondog

i called and talked to the service manager expressing my concern at the "full bars".... He told me that he was confident that the tech did not overfill AND that he encourages his techs to fill to the top bar--- i aint making that up....

He also told me that i could bring it by and they would double check it..."from the back". I dont know what that means and while i should have asked...... i didn't.

I have not had the time to drop by...so i continue to drive with "full bars" -- i have not noticed any performance difference, but still have that lingering concern.

This also brings up another point that has been discussed --- DEALER SERVICE---

While i am not one to necessarily rag on the dealer for having higher (sometimes MUCH higher prices) on parts and service-- The one thing i DO expect is superior customer service and HONESTY. ---(naive..am i!)
I must sadly say that my few encounters with my local dealer has not lived up to my expectations....While they are courteous... i am often put on hold for long periods..... When i leave messages, they never seem to call back promptly when they even call back at all--- When i had my car serviced, i asked for a pricing on a couple of other services----- (ding removal and windstop installation) and had to call them back 2 times before they remembered to quote it....(they finally quoted the windstop on my service receipt.... i called and had it requoted a few weeks later when i decided to do it and the new quote was $100 cheaper) My last car was a MB e320 and the dealer, a HUGE dealer, made me feel like a million bucks. --- My Porsche dealer makes me feel as if i am a bother to them.--- Maybe i am being a little harsh here and maybe i have not had enough experience with them, but i just expected more.

I run a client oriented business and i am very sensitive about giving my clients MORE than they expect. These guys need a refresher course in customer relations.

RD

Hi,

A couple of issues:

First, it states clearly in the Owners Manual (the 986 manual anyway) that the Full Mark is the Bar just under the Top Bar, meaning that the Top Bar is overfilled.

Second, the Top Bar is not a quantitative measure beyond showing that it is overfilled, because it could be a little or a lot overfilled - there is no way, short of draining and measuring the Oil to ascertain how much.

Now, Porsche did increase the Fill Capacity of the Oil Change in a TSB # 2/99 1 1701 which states:

The engine oil filling capacity for the Boxster has been increased as follows:

Oil change without filter - 8.5 liters (9 quarts), formerly 7.75 liters
Oil change with filter - 8.75 liters (9.25 quarts), formerly 8.25 liters

Effective immediately, the new filling capacities should be used on all Boxsters, retroactively, until further notice.

Please correct your Technical Manual accordingly.

Note: A draining time of 20 minutes is required to attain the proper oil level.
Always confirm oil level by checking the dipstick.

Now this increase could account for the Overfill indication, especially on Older models. Assuming that subsequent Model Year Gauges were not recalibrated to reflect this new capacity as Full, the Gauge is now knowingly innacurate by at least 4 Cups.

Also, if you're at a busy Dealer, the 20 min. drain requirement means that they can only complete 2 Oil Changes per Bay/Hr.. Could it be that they are skirting this requirement to avoid a bottleneck in the Service Dept. increase the revenue they generate, or earn productivity bonuses? This could result in Overfilling the system as well.

In any event, it is not good for this engine to be overfilled. I would get a written assurance from the Dealer that should you experience premature Cat, O² Sensors or Plug Fouling, and Oil Overfill is determined to be the cause, that they will accept liability for the proper repair. Or at the least, write to them acknowledging what they told you and keep a copy so if an issue does arise in the future, at least your concern is on record prior to a fault occuring.

So far as the Dealers' Customer Focus, There have been several satisfied Owners, but at least as many whom were dissatisfied. I believe this indicates that Porsche Service is not at the Top of the List in all Autodom...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

xclusivecar · 05-27-2006, 02:36 PM

What if you just removed the oil filter and dumped out its contents. Not sure how much oil will come out if you do this...but many Boxster owners only do full oil changes 1 or 2 times per year depending on mileage. In between these full oil changes they will change only the oil filter. It may get a little bit messy but oil won't just "stream" out of there, will it?

dezigns · 05-27-2006, 03:06 PM

no sir...nothing in the manual either...of course I'm new to the car - but I cant locate one for the life of me (dipstick that is). damnit, the dealer is closed until Tuesday. I really actually like my dealer - good, knowledgeable people that understand we care that much about our cars. I'll let you know what transpires when I talk to them.

Brucelee · 05-27-2006, 03:15 PM

You don't have a dipstick in your 05!

Brucelee · 05-27-2006, 03:17 PM

I guess I would be less concerned about a slight overfill on a dry sump car. Seems to me these guys MUST have thought about this and designed a drain off in the oil tank to deal with this (how hard could that be?).

Now, where the car has an oil pan, I can see all kinds of issues when the oil is over the top.

Am I off base here??

Oh, and I still want my dipstick and a place for my oil evacuator.

bhduxbury · 05-27-2006, 04:13 PM

mnb -- the OP indicated he has a 987 -- that car takes less oil than a 986 -- according to my 987 manual:

oil change with filter = 7.75 litres (8.19 quarts)
oil change w/o filter (perish the thought of not throwing on a new filter!) = 7.5 litres (7.93 quarts)

btw, following those guidelines with 2 diy oil & filter changes i have never overfilled, or underfilled, and the fill is at the top (3d) "ok" bar (not the "overfill" bar) -- so i don't think there's a tsb on it -- actually, i'd rather be in the 3 "acceptable" bars (and top off from there) than in the overfill bar (who knows how much?) -- and oh, the "checking from the back" thing sounds like bull****************

as for the bars (1 too low, 3 acceptable, 1 too high) in a 987 --

"The difference between the minimum and maximum marks on the (oil level) segment display is approx. 1.2 litres.

Each segment of the display corresponds to approx. 0.4 litre."

0.4 litre = 13.5 fl. oz / 0.423 quarts / 1.69 cups (just over one cup and two-thirds, which is what i would use).

then again, the OP said: "From the look of the meter it is full at all but one bar"

"at all BUT ONE BAR" -- that means all is perfect, from what i can tell.

but it's an example of yet another potential issue (along with cost) that militates in favor of diy oil/filter changes

rock on

brett

MNBoxster · 05-27-2006, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xclusivecar

What if you just removed the oil filter and dumped out its contents. Not sure how much oil will come out if you do this...but many Boxster owners only do full oil changes 1 or 2 times per year depending on mileage. In between these full oil changes they will change only the oil filter. It may get a little bit messy but oil won't just "stream" out of there, will it?

Hi,

As I understand it, the Filter takes about 0.75 Qts. with it. No, if you open the cannister, only the Oil in it and the Filter will be removed from the system - 0.75 Qts...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

MNBoxster · 05-27-2006, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dezigns

no sir...nothing in the manual either...of course I'm new to the car - but I cant locate one for the life of me (dipstick that is). damnit, the dealer is closed until Tuesday. I really actually like my dealer - good, knowledgeable people that understand we care that much about our cars. I'll let you know what transpires when I talk to them.

Hi,

No from '01 MY onwards, there is no Dipstick. The difference between the Full mark (1 below the Top Bar) and the minimum is 1.6 Qts. If you go below this level, the bottom Bar will flash. Hope this helps...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

MNBoxster · 05-27-2006, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucelee

I guess I would be less concerned about a slight overfill on a dry sump car. Seems to me these guys MUST have thought about this and designed a drain off in the oil tank to deal with this (how hard could that be?).

Now, where the car has an oil pan, I can see all kinds of issues when the oil is over the top.

Am I off base here??

Oh, and I still want my dipstick and a place for my oil evacuator.

Hi,

Yes, but remember, this is a quasi-dry sump system, it does in fact have a sump pan. In addition to increased drag on the Crank, an overfill situation can lead to the troubles I mentioned earlier...

Happy Mototoring!... Jim'99

MNBoxster · 05-27-2006, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhduxbury

mnb -- the OP indicated he has a 987 -- that car takes less oil than a 986 -- according to my 987 manual:

oil change with filter = 7.75 litres (8.19 quarts)
oil change w/o filter (perish the thought of not throwing on a new filter!) = 7.5 litres (7.93 quarts)

btw, following those guidelines with 2 diy oil & filter changes i have never overfilled, or underfilled, and the fill is at the top (3d) "ok" bar (not the "overfill" bar) -- so i don't think there's a tsb on it -- actually, i'd rather be in the 3 "acceptable" bars (and top off from there) than in the overfill bar (who knows how much?) -- and oh, the "checking from the back" thing sounds like bull****************

as for the bars (1 too low, 3 acceptable, 1 too high) in a 987 --

"The difference between the minimum and maximum marks on the (oil level) segment display is approx. 1.2 litres.

Each segment of the display corresponds to approx. 0.4 litre."

0.4 litre = 13.5 fl. oz / 0.423 quarts / 1.69 cups (just over one cup and two-thirds, which is what i would use).

then again, the OP said: "From the look of the meter it is full at all but one bar"

"at all BUT ONE BAR" -- that means all is perfect, from what i can tell.

but it's an example of yet another potential issue (along with cost) that militates in favor of diy oil/filter changes

rock on

brett

Hi,

I agree with you. But remember, this is all the same engine, just the Bore and Stroke Differ, so the capacities remain the same. I agree that it's better to reside in the in-between marks than to try and Top it Up. The in-between is not Low, just not maxxed...

Happy Motoring... Jim'99

Brucelee · 05-28-2006, 05:22 AM

"Hi,

Yes, but remember, this is a quasi-dry sump system, it does in fact have a sump pan. In addition to increased drag on the Crank, an overfill situation can lead to the troubles I mentioned earlier...

Happy Mototoring!... Jim'99"

Thanks Jim.

Boy, I think this is lame! If they are going with a QUASI dry sump, it seems to me they should have left the dipstick in there.

Cheez.

xclusivecar · 05-28-2006, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

As I understand it, the Filter takes about 0.75 Qts. with it. No, if you open the cannister, only the Oil in it and the Filter will be removed from the system - 0.75 Qts...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Thanks MN...then all that needs to be done is to remove the filter, drain the canister, replace filter, start the car, and then check the level. If more needs to be removed...repeat. If to much removed, just add a little oil at a time until satisfied.