Too much oil??!?!?!?

[986Jim]

987 doesn't have a dip stick? Thats bizzare.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by 986Jim

987 doesn't have a dip stick? Thats bizzare.

Neither do the new BMW 3 series. This is a trend, which I do not like.

In addition to having to trust these fundamentally unreliable electronics and sensors (with our $15K motors at risk) we cannot use an evacuator to remove oil.

To me, it is the continuing effort to make sure we MUST go back to the dealer for service.

[Rondog]

i called and talked to the service manager expressing my concern at the "full bars".... He told me that he was confident that the tech did not overfill AND that he encourages his techs to fill to the top bar--- i aint making that up....

He also told me that i could bring it by and they would double check it..."from the back". I dont know what that means and while i should have asked...... i didn't.

I have not had the time to drop by...so i continue to drive with "full bars" -- i have not noticed any performance difference, but still have that lingering concern.

This also brings up another point that has been discussed --- DEALER SERVICE---

While i am not one to necessarily rag on the dealer for having higher (sometimes MUCH higher prices) on parts and service-- The one thing i DO expect is superior customer service and HONESTY. ---(naive..am i!)
I must sadly say that my few encounters with my local dealer has not lived up to my expectations....While they are courteous... i am often put on hold for long periods..... When i leave messages, they never seem to call back promptly when they even call back at all--- When i had my car serviced, i asked for a pricing on a couple of other services----- (ding removal and windstop installation) and had to call them back 2 times before they remembered to quote it....(they finally quoted the windstop on my service receipt.... i called and had it requoted a few weeks later when i decided to do it and the new quote was $100 cheaper) My last car was a MB e320 and the dealer, a HUGE dealer, made me feel like a million bucks. --- My Porsche dealer makes me feel as if i am a bother to them.--- Maybe i am being a little harsh here and maybe i have not had enough experience with them, but i just expected more.

I run a client oriented business and i am very sensitive about giving my clients MORE than they expect. These guys need a refresher course in customer relations.

RD

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Rondog

i called and talked to the service manager expressing my concern at the "full bars".... He told me that he was confident that the tech did not overfill AND that he encourages his techs to fill to the top bar--- i aint making that up....

He also told me that i could bring it by and they would double check it..."from the back". I dont know what that means and while i should have asked...... i didn't.

I have not had the time to drop by...so i continue to drive with "full bars" -- i have not noticed any performance difference, but still have that lingering concern.

This also brings up another point that has been discussed --- DEALER SERVICE---

While i am not one to necessarily rag on the dealer for having higher (sometimes MUCH higher prices) on parts and service-- The one thing i DO expect is superior customer service and HONESTY. ---(naive..am i!)
I must sadly say that my few encounters with my local dealer has not lived up to my expectations....While they are courteous... i am often put on hold for long periods..... When i leave messages, they never seem to call back promptly when they even call back at all--- When i had my car serviced, i asked for a pricing on a couple of other services----- (ding removal and windstop installation) and had to call them back 2 times before they remembered to quote it....(they finally quoted the windstop on my service receipt.... i called and had it requoted a few weeks later when i decided to do it and the new quote was $100 cheaper) My last car was a MB e320 and the dealer, a HUGE dealer, made me feel like a million bucks. --- My Porsche dealer makes me feel as if i am a bother to them.--- Maybe i am being a little harsh here and maybe i have not had enough experience with them, but i just expected more.

I run a client oriented business and i am very sensitive about giving my clients MORE than they expect. These guys need a refresher course in customer relations.

RD

Hi,

A couple of issues:

First, it states clearly in the Owners Manual (the 986 manual anyway) that the Full Mark is the Bar just under the Top Bar, meaning that the Top Bar is overfilled.

Second, the Top Bar is not a quantitative measure beyond showing that it is overfilled, because it could be a little or a lot overfilled - there is no way, short of draining and measuring the Oil to ascertain how much.

Now, Porsche did increase the Fill Capacity of the Oil Change in a TSB # 2/99 1 1701 which states:

• The engine oil filling capacity for the Boxster has been increased as follows:
  
  Oil change without filter - 8.5 liters (9 quarts), formerly 7.75 liters
  Oil change with filter - 8.75 liters (9.25 quarts), formerly 8.25 liters
  
  Effective immediately, the new filling capacities should be used on all Boxsters, retroactively, until further notice.
  
  Please correct your Technical Manual accordingly.
  
  Note: A draining time of 20 minutes is required to attain the proper oil level.
  Always confirm oil level by checking the dipstick.

Now this increase could account for the Overfill indication, especially on Older models. Assuming that subsequent Model Year Gauges were not recalibrated to reflect this new capacity as Full, the Gauge is now knowingly innacurate by at least 4 Cups.

Also, if you're at a busy Dealer, the 20 min. drain requirement means that they can only complete 2 Oil Changes per Bay/Hr.. Could it be that they are skirting this requirement to avoid a bottleneck in the Service Dept. increase the revenue they generate, or earn productivity bonuses? This could result in Overfilling the system as well.

In any event, it is not good for this engine to be overfilled. I would get a written assurance from the Dealer that should you experience premature Cat, O² Sensors or Plug Fouling, and Oil Overfill is determined to be the cause, that they will accept liability for the proper repair. Or at the least, write to them acknowledging what they told you and keep a copy so if an issue does arise in the future, at least your concern is on record prior to a fault occuring.

So far as the Dealers' Customer Focus, There have been several satisfied Owners, but at least as many whom were dissatisfied. I believe this indicates that Porsche Service is not at the Top of the List in all Autodom...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[xclusivecar]

What if you just removed the oil filter and dumped out its contents. Not sure how much oil will come out if you do this...but many Boxster owners only do full oil changes 1 or 2 times per year depending on mileage. In between these full oil changes they will change only the oil filter. It may get a little bit messy but oil won't just "stream" out of there, will it?

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by xclusivecar

What if you just removed the oil filter and dumped out its contents. Not sure how much oil will come out if you do this...but many Boxster owners only do full oil changes 1 or 2 times per year depending on mileage. In between these full oil changes they will change only the oil filter. It may get a little bit messy but oil won't just "stream" out of there, will it?

Hi,

As I understand it, the Filter takes about 0.75 Qts. with it. No, if you open the cannister, only the Oil in it and the Filter will be removed from the system - 0.75 Qts...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[xclusivecar]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

As I understand it, the Filter takes about 0.75 Qts. with it. No, if you open the cannister, only the Oil in it and the Filter will be removed from the system - 0.75 Qts...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Thanks MN...then all that needs to be done is to remove the filter, drain the canister, replace filter, start the car, and then check the level. If more needs to be removed...repeat. If to much removed, just add a little oil at a time until satisfied.

[dezigns]

no sir...nothing in the manual either...of course I'm new to the car - but I cant locate one for the life of me (dipstick that is). damnit, the dealer is closed until Tuesday. I really actually like my dealer - good, knowledgeable people that understand we care that much about our cars. I'll let you know what transpires when I talk to them.

[Brucelee]

You don't have a dipstick in your 05!

[Brucelee]

I guess I would be less concerned about a slight overfill on a dry sump car. Seems to me these guys MUST have thought about this and designed a drain off in the oil tank to deal with this (how hard could that be?).

Now, where the car has an oil pan, I can see all kinds of issues when the oil is over the top.

Am I off base here??

Oh, and I still want my dipstick and a place for my oil evacuator.

[bhduxbury]

mnb -- the OP indicated he has a 987 -- that car takes less oil than a 986 -- according to my 987 manual:

oil change with filter = 7.75 litres (8.19 quarts)
oil change w/o filter (perish the thought of not throwing on a new filter!) = 7.5 litres (7.93 quarts)

btw, following those guidelines with 2 diy oil & filter changes i have never overfilled, or underfilled, and the fill is at the top (3d) "ok" bar (not the "overfill" bar) -- so i don't think there's a tsb on it -- actually, i'd rather be in the 3 "acceptable" bars (and top off from there) than in the overfill bar (who knows how much?) -- and oh, the "checking from the back" thing sounds like bull****************

as for the bars (1 too low, 3 acceptable, 1 too high) in a 987 --

"The difference between the minimum and maximum marks on the (oil level) segment display is approx. 1.2 litres.

Each segment of the display corresponds to approx. 0.4 litre."

0.4 litre = 13.5 fl. oz / 0.423 quarts / 1.69 cups (just over one cup and two-thirds, which is what i would use).




then again, the OP said: "From the look of the meter it is full at all but one bar"

"at all BUT ONE BAR" -- that means all is perfect, from what i can tell.

but it's an example of yet another potential issue (along with cost) that militates in favor of diy oil/filter changes

rock on

brett

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by bhduxbury

mnb -- the OP indicated he has a 987 -- that car takes less oil than a 986 -- according to my 987 manual:

oil change with filter = 7.75 litres (8.19 quarts)
oil change w/o filter (perish the thought of not throwing on a new filter!) = 7.5 litres (7.93 quarts)

btw, following those guidelines with 2 diy oil & filter changes i have never overfilled, or underfilled, and the fill is at the top (3d) "ok" bar (not the "overfill" bar) -- so i don't think there's a tsb on it -- actually, i'd rather be in the 3 "acceptable" bars (and top off from there) than in the overfill bar (who knows how much?) -- and oh, the "checking from the back" thing sounds like bull****************

as for the bars (1 too low, 3 acceptable, 1 too high) in a 987 --

"The difference between the minimum and maximum marks on the (oil level) segment display is approx. 1.2 litres.

Each segment of the display corresponds to approx. 0.4 litre."

0.4 litre = 13.5 fl. oz / 0.423 quarts / 1.69 cups (just over one cup and two-thirds, which is what i would use).




then again, the OP said: "From the look of the meter it is full at all but one bar"

"at all BUT ONE BAR" -- that means all is perfect, from what i can tell.

but it's an example of yet another potential issue (along with cost) that militates in favor of diy oil/filter changes

rock on

brett

Hi,

I agree with you. But remember, this is all the same engine, just the Bore and Stroke Differ, so the capacities remain the same. I agree that it's better to reside in the in-between marks than to try and Top it Up. The in-between is not Low, just not maxxed...

Happy Motoring... Jim'99

[Brucelee]

"Hi,

Yes, but remember, this is a quasi-dry sump system, it does in fact have a sump pan. In addition to increased drag on the Crank, an overfill situation can lead to the troubles I mentioned earlier...

Happy Mototoring!... Jim'99"

Thanks Jim.

Boy, I think this is lame! If they are going with a QUASI dry sump, it seems to me they should have left the dipstick in there.

Cheez.

[bhduxbury]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

But remember, this is all the same engine, just the Bore and Stroke Differ, so the capacities remain the same

that's cool, jim, but your numbers are a full litre (1.06 quarts, iirc) more than mine -- following yours would surely lead to at least an "indicated" overfill on a 987 on the digimeter. oh well.

and again, on another topic, ron's original post says "From the look of the meter it is full at all but one bar" -- not an overfill situation, from where i stand

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

I guess I would be less concerned about a slight overfill on a dry sump car. Seems to me these guys MUST have thought about this and designed a drain off in the oil tank to deal with this (how hard could that be?).

Now, where the car has an oil pan, I can see all kinds of issues when the oil is over the top.

Am I off base here??

Oh, and I still want my dipstick and a place for my oil evacuator.

Hi,

Yes, but remember, this is a quasi-dry sump system, it does in fact have a sump pan. In addition to increased drag on the Crank, an overfill situation can lead to the troubles I mentioned earlier...

Happy Mototoring!... Jim'99

[dezigns]

OK, so I took it to the dealer today, as I had my 20k service last week, which is when the oil was changed, and the alarm sounded, haha. First of all, wonderful service from Adrian and Jeff at Valley Motors Porsche in Cockeysville, MD. Top notch guys all the way around, very honest and hospitable people. Best dealer experience I've ever had - after owning Toyotas, Nissans, etc. They're simply great- I showed up, told them my problem, and they put the car in the bay immediately.

But I digress...they took the car in on the diagnostics, and determined it was slightly (like half a cup) over the "full" mark - which highlighted the top bar. No need to siphon they said, wont do any damage, and I also assumed I'd probably burn that excess oil within a month or so anyways.

So, long and short - if you're overfilled, it doesnt hurt to check how much, but obviously the digital gauge is quite sensitive and pretty darn accurate, and most likely, you're not in a huge overfill situation. They did say though, the max they fill any car EVER, is 10 quarts (996 maybe?)

[MNBoxster]

@dezigns,

I'm glad you had this checked and it's OK. Your Mechanics are correct, ½ Cup is not a Big Deal and will probably burn off with time.

But for others, be aware that an Overfill isn't merely what is added to the Engine, you must also be sure that you first drain the proper amount when doing the change to insure the final level is correct.

Porsche calls for draining the Oil for at least 20 min. to insure that the old Oil is fully drained. I wait a minimum of 30 min. just to be sure. Make sure that the Car has been run and the Oil is warm, this allows it to flow easier as well as insuring that all the contaminates are picked up in suspension so that the Oil will carry them out of the Engine.

Also, be sure that the Car is LEVEL or you won't be draining the proper amount. This can be difficult when performing a DIY change on JackStands, so I prefer the method of jacking the Car, pulling the Drain Plug and then lowering the Car with the Catch Pan in place. This ensures the car is level and that you get all the old stuff out. Then raise it again, button everything up, and fill with the measured amount. This will avoid any gross overfills, and get all the dirt and grime out of the motor. Hope this helps...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by dezigns

no sir...nothing in the manual either...of course I'm new to the car - but I cant locate one for the life of me (dipstick that is). damnit, the dealer is closed until Tuesday. I really actually like my dealer - good, knowledgeable people that understand we care that much about our cars. I'll let you know what transpires when I talk to them.

Hi,

No from '01 MY onwards, there is no Dipstick. The difference between the Full mark (1 below the Top Bar) and the minimum is 1.6 Qts. If you go below this level, the bottom Bar will flash. Hope this helps...


Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

No from '01 MY onwards, there is no Dipstick. The difference between the Full mark (1 below the Top Bar) and the minimum is 1.6 Qts. If you go below this level, the bottom Bar will flash. Hope this helps...


Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Jim, I believe MY 05+ is dipstickless. My 03 most certainly has a dipstick.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Adam

Jim, I believe MY 05+ is dipstickless. My 03 most certainly has a dipstick.

Hi,

Yea, I think you're right! Thanks for the correction...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99