Six Years of Blackstone Lab Oil Reports - Now Questioning Joe Gibbs

[Meir]

i have been using Castrol edge 10W/40 since the first day i owned my cars (thanks to the recommendation of one forum member ). im going to try 5W/40 for the first time in the next oil change, as i noticed LN is recommending this grade with the spin on oil filter.
definitely interested in this thread, and wondering if the JG has significant advantages over the Castrol.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Meir

i have been using Castrol edge 10W/40 since the firs day i owned my cars (thanks to the recommendation of one forum member ). im going to try 5W/40 for the firs time in the next oil change, as i noticed LN is recommending this grade with the spin on oil filter.
definitely interested in this thread, and wondering if the JG has significant advantages over the Castrol.

Primarily in the anti wear characteristics department. Gibbs is very high in ZDDP, much higher than just about any other full synthetic commercially available, while the Edge product (like all the others) had moved to a titanium based anti wear additive package. While the Edge remains an excellent product, Gibbs use of ZDDP rather than another metal salt anti wear additives give it a decided "edge" in protecting internal engine components from long term wear.

Castrol, like all the other majors, is under intense pressure from the OEM's to reduce or eliminate ZDDP from their formulations in order to help catalytic converters live longer (the OEM's are on the hook with the EPA to have to warranty converters for up to 80,000 miles. Zinc salts can shorten that life by irreversibly poisoning the converter media, as can other additives used in things like gas.)

[Perfectlap]

yes but how is your car running? queiter? Is your gas mileage the same? how does the filter compare to when you used the mass market stuff?

This oil stuff reminds me of surgery. You can't rely solely on the fluid samples taken. You have to take it altogether.
However, I'm not a doctor but I play one TV.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

However, I'm not a doctor but I play one TV.

Yes, but did you stay in a Holiday Inn last night?

[Pnut]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Castrol, like all the other majors, is under intense pressure from the OEM's to reduce or eliminate ZDDP from their formulations in order to help catalytic converters live longer (the OEM's are on the hook with the EPA to have to warranty converters for up to 80,000 miles. Zinc salts can shorten that life by irreversibly poisoning the converter media, as can other additives used in things like gas.)

So while DT40 helps more with metal wear in the motor, at the same time it's killing the cats faster? Would it not be more prudent to simply use a good full synthetic and be vigilant about short interval oil changes? Four cats x $xxx ea. = ouchy.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Pnut

So while DT40 helps more with metal wear in the motor, at the same time it's killing the cats faster? Would it not be more prudent to simply use a good full synthetic and be vigilant about short interval oil changes? Four cats x $xxx ea. = ouchy.

Exactly how much ZDDP contributes to early cat failure is a matter of conjecture. If you blow ZDDP in quantities into cats, they do become poisoned and fail; that is a matter of fact. Unfortunately, the cats also fail, in large numbers, on cars that use oil with little or no ZDDP in them, implying that there is another element at work here.

By far, the biggest contributor to cat failures is thought by many to be cheap gasoline additives, which also contain levels of metal salts. Add in the fact that your car would have to be consuming a lot of oil over a prolonged period to get to the level of ZDDP that kills the cats, some very interesting questions arise; like is it the ZDDP from the oil, or is it coming from the fuels, which are blowing burnt additives into the cats constantly? Obviously, the gas additives would answer the how cars using oil without ZDDP ended up with dead cats, but the OEM's lobbied the EPA for relief on having to replace failed cats, pointing the finger at ZDDP instead, and the EPA bought their questionable logic.

In any case, replacing your cats is far cheaper than replacing your engine; believe me, I have had to do both for customers on a regular basis. Used cats out of wrecks are readily available and actually fairly cheap. And they can be changed in a driveway with simple hand tools. Swapping out an engine is entirely another story, particularly with crate short blocks costing more than most of these cars are worth.

[Perfectlap]

my cats went down to Costco 93 unleaded at 80K miles. I bought into all gas is the same arguments. Very expensive repair.
I only ever used Mobil one and then Castrol Edge both with little ZDDP. Then I switched to Motul Xcess and let the intervals run longer...now out of the blue I have sticky lifter giving me a fairly quiet but slightly wobbly idle (less than 1 hash mark). Moral of the story.... buy expensive oil and change it twice a year if you drive year round. Keep that oil fresh.

[Pnut]

All good info - thx much - but now I'm worrying about the fuel I put in my car.

It seems to me what's needed is a "Best Practices" list for the enthusiast who wants to care for his/her vehicle over the long term. When a site gets this big (and I come from VW Vortex... ENORMOUS), it becomes easier for important information to get lost deep in the database. Just the other day I read something about putting screens in the water drains. Smart, that. From simple solutions to re-engineered pieces that fit and serve better than the factory part. I mean, one can't find such information if one doesn't know to look for it.