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Old 12-21-2015, 05:54 AM   #1
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Good place to find accurate Boxster values?

Hi guys,

New to this forum and am currently looking a used Boxster for sale. I had a few general questions I was hoping you could help me out with. I can't find a good spot on the net for accurate values on these cars. KBB and the other values seem a bit off from what people tend to be asking for their cars when up for sale? Are those values accurate based on what your seeing? (KBB, NADA, etc...).

Also, the one I spotted for sale is very low mileage which I have read may not necessarily be a good thing when talking IMS bearing health? Any comments or advice here would be appreciated. My understanding is this car might be the dual row IMS might make this model a tad less troublesome from a bearing perspective, though I'd like to set aside funds to have this done ASAP and factor my budget accordingly.

I am looking at 99 model / 5 speed with less than 15k miles. It has 17 inch factory wheels and appears to be in great shape, though lack of use may not be the best thing!

Any comments or opinions on what would be a fair price or or a high price that would be considered in line with the low mileage would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks for the help!!

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Old 12-21-2015, 06:08 AM   #2
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I bought a base '99 this past August with 14k kms (8700 miles) and I immediately flatbedded it to a Porsche mechanic and did the IMS, AOS and other various stuff because I am not much of a wrencher. The mechanic said that the car was in amazing shape; just like new and he suggested I do regular maintenance like it was new. In the short time I have driven it, It has been spectacular, I love driving it and have had no mechanical issues to speak of. IMO, I wouldn't worry about the lack of miles on the car as long as you have the car thoroughly checked out as I did.
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Old 12-21-2015, 06:09 AM   #3
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Values are all over the place depending on condition so there are no "accurate" values really. A car that has been well maintained with oil changes every 5k miles or less and service records, few owners, no wrecks, would be worth more to me. 1999 is a good year for Boxsters but a garage queen fro the NE would be less interesting to me.
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Old 12-21-2015, 06:45 AM   #4
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Have the block examined for the engine serial number and use it to determine that the engine is not a replacement. Less than a 1% chance it would be but it then could be a single row IMS block. Any way of determining its maintenance history via VIN to the local dealer?
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Old 12-21-2015, 07:35 AM   #5
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I will give this advice,

96-99 is essentially the same car.
00-04 is essentially the same car.
05-08 is essentially the same car.
09-11 is essentially the same car.

Look for a car with low mileage within each range up above. Anything with greater than 50K miles that you hope to buy without sinking a great deal of money into needs to be a car that has lived its whole life in a moderate weather zip code or has to come with a large file of non-deferred repairs. If someone is selling a car that "needs nothing" and was driven greater than 50K miles in a climate that sees extremes of heat and cold... walk away. Case in point my car was mostly garage kept, driven only on weekends but driven year-round in the Northeast. The first 65K miles were flawless. But from 70K miles to 100K it needed more in repairs than the resale price of the car itself.

The other thing, mileage alone does not tell the whole story. That's why high mileage cars with no history are problematic. You can have a low mileage car that was driven weekly ( a good thing) but only on short trips (a bad thing). You can have a moderate mileage car that was driven daily for at least an hour in So Cal (win, win, win). This is why the pre-purchase inspection is important, I would absolute include a leak down and compression test. The other issue is sticky lifters or collapsed lifters, according to our engine experts here, high mileage Boxsters and Carreras nearly all have issues in this area.

The IMS thing is overblown. Your engine is more likely to go down due to a water pump that was not replaced proactively. The general rule is every 4-5 years. A failing water pump will claim many more engines for each IMS failure. But it is true a dual row bearing is better to have as it has a longer service interval. But when a dual row bearing goes the damage is greater. From what I've read over the years it seems that this issue is due to oil starvation or oil contamination. Upgrading the bearing does not address the root cause of these, it just gives you a bearing that is more resistant to these maladies. Replacing the bearing on a car that has an unknown history is a good idea but so is replacing the water pump. The other thing to keep in mind is that a car without a good history may have other engine issues brewing, hence the importance of the leak down and compression test. Replacing the oil before taking ownership is not a bad idea either if the seller will agree that the sale will be final pending an examination of the pan for any metal.

As for values, I don't believe any publication has an accurate assessment of these because from what I've seen the Porsche market has experienced a recent bubble up in pricing across all sports car models. I suspect that with a weakening credit market in the next 12-18 months and possibly a mild recession that prices for the mass produced Porsches (Boxster/Cayman and 99+ 911's) are going to depreciate at a faster rate than we've since since 2009. There are simply too many water-cooled Porsches for sale right now without nearly a deep enough pool of buyers to take the risk on out-of-warranty cars. If you do buy a strongly urge you to buy from an enthusiast directly in the Porsche forums first. Used car lot Porsches should come with a deep discount but instead come with a middleman's surcharge.

The mileage on that 99 seems problematic to me. If the oil wasn't changed twice a year, or immediately before storage more so.
The engine needs to sit in fresh oil or needs to be drive long enough to burn off the build up from moisture and dirty oil. If its getting neither, not good.
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Last edited by Perfectlap; 12-21-2015 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 12-21-2015, 08:47 AM   #6
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I think that KBB is a good place to start, but typically there will need to be a manual adjustment for cars that are out of the ordinary (very low/high miles, specific equipment, receipts/no receipts, etc).

KBB pegs a 1999 Boxster with 15K miles at $10K. Upping the mileage to 75K miles drops the price to $7800.

Asking prices can be all over the map - someone can ask whatever they want, whether it makes sense or not. And some owners are willing to wait for years to get "their" price. To each their own.

In your case, I am pretty sure that the owner is asking well over the $10K KBB valuation and what you really want to know is how much more would be reasonable to pay and what would be the upper limit?

The problem with this is that it becomes subjective and everyone will have a different opinion. How badly do you want a super low miles car? Does this car have anything else that makes it unique or valuable to you?

If its just another used Boxster (albeit with very low miles), I would offer a little more than KBB, maybe $11,500, and then walk away if the owner wants more. There is no reason to overpay for a Boxster.
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Last edited by thstone; 12-21-2015 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 12-21-2015, 09:11 AM   #7
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Old 12-21-2015, 11:49 AM   #8
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I'd note that the 09-11 have a new engine design (no IMS) and are offered with a PDK instead of the tiptronic. Most would consider this a major difference from the earlier cars and the market reflect this with a significant price premium.
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Old 12-21-2015, 12:33 PM   #9
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Thanks guys, appreciate your advice.

Everyone thinks a car with low mileage is priceless! They are asking a lot for the one I'm looking at. I don't mind paying a premium as long as everything checks out.

I've already asked for the engine number as I want to validate the original engine.

Would it be popular consensus here to perform certain preventative maintenance on a low mile car if purchased.....such as water pump, RMS/IMS, AOS? Let me know what many would require must do's on a low mileage car after a PPI checks out.

I was also considering having the IMS Solution installed whatever Boxster I buy. I like the idea of a more permanent solution such as the oil fed plain bearing.

Really appreciate all the input and advice here guys. Thanks so much!!!!
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Old 12-21-2015, 02:17 PM   #10
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What do you want the car for? Daily driver, weekend cruise, AX or track...? The 99 and earlier models all have a 2.5L engine, which is fun and fine for me, but may not be fitting for "Speedingbullitt". For the same money you may find a higher mile 'S' model with a 3.2L engine.

Prices are all over the place, and you may even save thousands by buying a car from a few hundred miles away. Look at the classified section here and see some of the "Sold" deals.

Here's a quick way to see the asking prices in the Dallas market:
dallas cars & trucks "boxster" - craigslist
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Old 12-21-2015, 02:43 PM   #11
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Old 12-21-2015, 03:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedingbullitt View Post

Would it be popular consensus here to perform certain preventative maintenance on a low mile car if purchased.....such as water pump, RMS/IMS, AOS? Let me know what many would require must do's on a low mileage car after a PPI checks out.
I think you want to go with the what the Porsche mechanics would advise. If you by popular consensus most Porsche owners never think about the water pump until it lets go and they wait until it's clutch time to do the IMS retrofit. I believe most Porsche mechanics will tell you this is wrong on both accounts. The water pump is a calendar item, and the IMS on a extremely low mileage car is prime candidacy for an IMS failure, if that oil has not been frequently changed (less than once a year). Along with the AOS, these are the three parts that can take down the engine if they fail while driving.
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Old 12-27-2015, 03:54 PM   #13
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If you are willing to pay a premium, may I suggest moving ahead 1 year to upgrade from the base model to a 2000 S model. You get a lot more with an S model.
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Old 12-27-2015, 07:11 PM   #14
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I use search tempest, find all C/L listings in a large area. The book values are a good guide but only a guide, local asking prices are a good barometer.
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Old 12-28-2015, 09:20 AM   #15
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sorry somehow a dup

Last edited by arthrodriver; 12-28-2015 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 12-28-2015, 09:30 AM   #16
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Good stuff for potential buyers...and thanks. Please say more about water pumps. Do they squeal or dribble like the ones on other cars? If so the astute owner detects the fluid spot or hears the noise. Also if you can reach it the final clue of flexing the pulley to detect play. Falling coolant level. Not owning one I realize you may need plastic man's arm for some of this.

Back on the IMS. I have read about the various IMS fixes, but feel unsure what
consensus is. Routine changeout of sealed bearings, single or double; changeout to ceramic hybrid; installation of module with engine oil pressurized feed lines? A well received rebuild author in this forum , flaps10, seemed to think a plain bearing could not work.
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Old 12-28-2015, 10:44 AM   #17
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The water pump on my LE went out rather suddenly. I was driving home from work one day and smelled antifreeze as I drove. Made a quick stop and noticed an antifreeze puddle when I returned. I was 3.5 mi from home and barely made it. No noise. 26K mi, covered under warranty.

The wp on my CSS was a bit different. I started smelling slight antifreeze smells out of the right vent but no coolant loss. Drove it a week like this, but it was in the middle of winter and I didn't want to chance being stranded in a bad situation, so I had it changed out. Antifreeze smell went away. Again, no noises. 32K mi, dealer fix out of my pocket.
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Old 12-28-2015, 11:07 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by arthrodriver View Post
Good stuff for potential buyers...and thanks. Please say more about water pumps. Do they squeal or dribble like the ones on other cars? If so the astute owner detects the fluid spot or hears the noise. Also if you can reach it the final clue of flexing the pulley to detect play. Falling coolant level. Not owning one I realize you may need plastic man's arm for some of this.

Back on the IMS. I have read about the various IMS fixes, but feel unsure what
consensus is. Routine changeout of sealed bearings, single or double; changeout to ceramic hybrid; installation of module with engine oil pressurized feed lines? A well received rebuild author in this forum , flaps10, seemed to think a plain bearing could not work.
If you have no documentation that either the IMS or water pump have nneed replaced just plan/budget on getting them done. When they go they don't necessarily give some sort of warning. If/when they do the damage is likely to have already seen done.
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Old 12-28-2015, 06:00 PM   #19
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Actual selling prices can be found on Ebay in an obscure section called "Completed Listings". That is hard price data. But without a corresponding PPI for each sold car it is meaningless. One engine failure costs you more than the entire purchase price. So the key is a PPI from an M96 specialist with a great reputation.
You can find that guy by asking here.

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