Cyclist vs Porsche - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Timco · 08-10-2015, 01:45 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cgQ9O5qmbNU&feature=youtu.be

How do you hot link a YouTube video on this site? (Where the video appears)

paulofto · 08-10-2015, 01:56 PM

Wow, scary stuff. His brakes must have failed to be going that fast approaching the hairpin. If he hadn't hit the car he would have shot clean off the switch back.

jpc763 · 08-10-2015, 02:20 PM

I watched that video in slow motion as close to frame by frame as I could follow. The cyclist was clearly coming in way too fast into that tight corner.

You can see that he is attempting to slow down as his bike gets sideways and then he gets up on his front wheel a bit. Clearly he was trying to slow down.

He actually managed to turn somewhat but I do not think he would have made the turn.

The Porsche had no chance, but I do have a problem with cars on the road during pro cycling events.

Note that as they were trying to slow people down, two more cyclists hit a motorcycle. What a disaster!

Bootlegger · 08-10-2015, 04:09 PM

The UCI has been taking their time (dragging their feet?) on allowing disc brakes in the pro peloton. The rim brakes currently in use are far inferior to the technology available. Quite simply, the cyclist was traveling way too fast and the car (and motorcycles) should not have been in their space. I just read he was still hospitalized. All competitive mountain bikes come with disc brakes and they work. That was a scary situation/collision.

The Radium King · 08-10-2015, 07:01 PM

looks like the cars on the course forced him to the inside of the turn. on the outside he might have stood a chance.

Retroman1969 · 08-10-2015, 08:21 PM

And the response was to jump up and down in the middle of the road and yell "slow down!"
To the casual observer it looks like one of the most poorly planned events in the long, rich history of poorly planned events.

njbray · 08-10-2015, 09:28 PM

It looks like his throttle got stuck wide open! They need a yellow flag! I hope the Porsche is OK. Seriously.... I hope the rider recovers, but he was going a bit too fast and he got airborne which didn't help.

Perfectlap · 08-11-2015, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bootlegger

The UCI has been taking their time (dragging their feet?) on allowing disc brakes in the pro peloton. The rim brakes currently in use are far inferior to the technology available. Quite simply, the cyclist was traveling way too fast and the car (and motorcycles) should not have been in their space. I just read he was still hospitalized. All competitive mountain bikes come with disc brakes and they work. That was a scary situation/collision.

disc brakes stop much better but when they fail the result can be catastrophic.
Highly unlikely to be an issue for a competitive rider who has his bike strictly maintained by a team mechanic. But for recreational riders you really have to be on top of them, they're prone to contamination and most cyclists simply don't know how to thoroughly service them and as a result don't as often they should be. One blogger wrote an article about how his new disc brakes failed during a descent like this, he said he was certain he was going to go over a cliff if memory serves. It was enough for me to stay with the old school brakes on my road bike and simply descend with more caution.

Perfectlap · 08-11-2015, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Radium King

looks like the cars on the course forced him to the inside of the turn. on the outside he might have stood a chance.

he was going in way too fast if he did have to cut to the inside. I almost think colliding the car might have been the thing that kept him from going over the falls in his barrel.

I did a cycling camp in Italy with a domestic pro team where we climbed a stage of the Giro d'Italia. Some of the locals took the straight bit of the descent (way steeper than this) with no hands on the bars while zipping up with wet cow patties littering the road.
Some people I think have no sense of danger, even when they see professional riders getting killed on descents like in 2011 at the Giro.

jpc763 · 08-11-2015, 07:49 AM

Here is another view of this crash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rNE4WapG3o&feature=youtu.be

As you can see in this view, the rider was going way too fast exiting the corner of the previous turn and had really no where to go. This is definitely rider error, but I still have a problem with the number of cars on this section of the decent.

Bootlegger · 08-11-2015, 08:55 AM

Great point Perfectlap. Also, the almost exclusive use of carbon fiber rims adds to the reduced braking performance from rim style brakes. Interestingly, the use of disc brakes in both cross and mountain bike races has proven the technology to be effective. One of the main limiters is that they are too effective and modulation becomes an issue on the road. Back to Boxsters....my car stops incredibly fast.

Perfectlap · 08-11-2015, 08:59 AM

From that view it looks like he had open road ahead of him to go flat out... until he came around that corner. Then he's like "OH SHH$TT!!! it's a tighter turn than I anticipated and there are cars everywhere!!

I would have soiled myself.

Perfectlap · 08-11-2015, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bootlegger

Great point Perfectlap. Also, the almost exclusive use of carbon fiber rims adds to the reduced braking performance from rim style brakes. Interestingly, the use of disc brakes in both cross and mountain bike races has proven the technology to be effective. One of the main limiters is that they are too effective and modulation becomes an issue on the road. Back to Boxsters....my car stops incredibly fast.

yes disc brakes are superb for offroad. No contest the stopping power simply does not compare. So many face first crashes into logs and trees could have been prevented with these 20 years ago. But what a hassle to keep them quiet. They require more cleaning than my Boxster! I have disc brakes on my 29er and single speed cyclocross bike which I ride during winter as commuter bike with studed tires. I have to keep a bottle of rubbing alcohol right there on the bike stand to clean off the brake pads after each ride.

san rensho · 08-11-2015, 09:14 AM

The two youtube views show very clearly what happened, and it was unfortunately, completely rider error, and I might add, the most basic, newbie mistakes compounded on to tragic effect. The team car did not contribute at all to the collision, it just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Mistake number one the cyclist is coming in way too fast on the inside in a corner. When he realizes his mistake, he compounds the mistake by using the rear brake brake HARD. In this situation, in fact, in almost all situations on a bicycle or a motorcycle, never ever use the rear brake, use only the front brake.

Unfortunately, the poor cyclist compounds his mistake even more. By using the rear brake, the rear wheel locks up and he starts to fishtail. When you're in this situation, the only thing you can do is hold onto the rear brake and keep on skidding. But he makes again, another classic beginner mistake, he lets go of the rear brake and immediately gets traction while the bike is still sideways and high sides, eventually getting airborne and going into the Porsche.

If you look at the group of three immediately before him, the guy in the middle of the three is a textbook example of how to take that corner. He brakes late and stays way to the outside, gets his speed down, and comes across and hits the apex late and starts to accelerate out. It's really uncanny how slow in, late apex fast out in almost any corner on almost any vehicle is the fastest and safest way around the corner.

Yet in almost every big crash that I see on television, the rider invariably is way too far inside and way too fast in a 90 degree+ corner, he locks up the rear wheel and everything goes downhill from there. I really can't understand how professional racers can't learn a very simple concept. Never use the rear brake, always use the front brake.

Perfectlap · 08-12-2015, 06:01 AM

^ it's knee-jerk conditioning thing from early age to use the rear brake, they're afraid that hard braking to the front will lift the rear wheel and they'll lose traction, and fall face first. When I first added a front brake to my fixed gear track bike, it took some getting used to. (I never ride sans brake after dropping a chain on a FAST descent)

Mark_T · 08-12-2015, 07:22 PM

I've got BB7's on my 29'er and they are amazing compared to rim brakes. They totally outperform the 105's on my Trek road bike.