Which IMS bearing upgrade

[paolodiquigley]

hi all,

Having the clutch and rms seal replaced in a couple of weeks so I'm also looking into having the IMS upgraded. It seems I have 2 real options:

The eternal fix which uses a roller bearing
The Ln engineering upgrade

My main problem is I have no idea wether I have a single row or double row bearing?
My car was first registered in January 2001 so the engine would have most likely been built in 2000. Seems to be the cross over point?

With the eternal fix, it states that it is suitable for both the double and single row bearings. The Ln upgrade on the other hand will require a lot of labour getting to the bearing to establish which version I have to order.

Is this correct?

Would this mean if I went with the Ln upgrade, I would have to pay to have the current bearing identified, then pay again to actually have it installed?

Thanks
Darkly

[mikefocke]

With the LN bearing, you generally receive a fully installed price from your mechanic. The mechanic removes the transmission, inspects the exterior cover of the bearing which tells him which bearing he needs. If he does a lot of these, maybe he even has one of each on hand. Maybe it takes and extra day or two while the right bearing comes to your mechanic. The only extra labor would be moving the car off the lift to sit somewhere and then rolling the car back on the lift. But if he is experienced in doing these, he figures that in to the price.

There are mechanics in Britain who are experienced in doing this. Ask on boxa.net who they are.

Be also aware that there are two versions of LN bearing especially for the single row early version engines so be specific about which you are going to use. One version even converts the single row to a double row. Somewhat more expensive but expected longer life.

The LN bearings are well proven with tens of thousands of installs over many millions of miles and over 15k car/years. Hundreds of forum postings about them both in the US and UK.

The eternal claim is marketing. Few postings on the forums from people who have used them. Time measured in years and miles measured in millions will tell how good they are.

[paolodiquigley]

Yes, the research I've done on the eternal fix is inconclusive at best. Sounds good but as you say, not proven yet.

I guess the most important thing for me at the moment is finding out which bearing I have. If I have a double row then I won't bother with the upgrade as these appear a lot more reliable. I'm going to have the clutch and rms done so the mechanic should be able to establish which bearing I have at that point? If it is a single row I'll get one ordered quick so it can be upgraded while doing the other work. Seems to be my only option really

[CHRISP357]

The Eternal fix is a completely acceptable option. Many on this forum have a "Kool-aid" problem with LN. Not criticizing LN at all but they most certainly are not the only game in town. But don't listen to me or the others on this one. Do your own research and be happy with your decision. Odds are, any one will be just fine.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by paolodiquigley

Yes, the research I've done on the eternal fix is inconclusive at best. Sounds good but as you say, not proven yet.

I guess the most important thing for me at the moment is finding out which bearing I have. If I have a double row then I won't bother with the upgrade as these appear a lot more reliable. I'm going to have the clutch and rms done so the mechanic should be able to establish which bearing I have at that point? If it is a single row I'll get one ordered quick so it can be upgraded while doing the other work. Seems to be my only option really

If your mechanic is worth his salt, and does more than just the odd or occasional IMS replacement, which is what your really want in as shop doing this work, he (or she) should be stocking both LN styles. When they take the car apart and look, they just pull the correct part from stock and you are on your way.

[paolodiquigley]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

If your mechanic is worth his salt, and does more than just the odd or occasional IMS replacement, which is what your really want in as shop doing this work, he (or she) should be stocking both LN styles. When they take the car apart and look, they just pull the correct part from stock and you are on your way.

It didn't really cross my mind that a good indie would stock the ln bearings considering the price of them? I don't have an indie that I use as I've only had the car for 2 weeks. Will phone around some local indies to find out if they have stock.

On a side note, how are mechanics with installing parts that I could supply myself? Does it ever work out cheaper or would they much rather source the parts themselves?

Thanks

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by paolodiquigley

It didn't really cross my mind that a good indie would stock the ln bearings considering the price of them? I don't have an indie that I use as I've only had the car for 2 weeks. Will phone around some local indies to find out if they have stock.

On a side note, how are mechanics with installing parts that I could supply myself? Does it ever work out cheaper or would they much rather source the parts themselves?

Thanks

I would not bet on it being cheaper if you bring your own parts, and a lot of shops get very concerned when the car owner wants to bring his own parts due to the number of times the car owner buys the wrong thing.

[Nmbrsix]

LN's site has LN certified installers by location. Not sure if that extends outside of the US/North America, but worth a look.

I had the PM on my car--including IMS replacement with an LN Single Row Pro--done by the LN certified installer in my state.

The estimate wasn't any more $ than the other Porsche shop I checked with, and both for my own peace of mind--as well as future resale--I decided it was the right call.

[Jake Raby]

To date no UK installers have cared enough about being properly trained to travel to my M96 Engine Rebuild classes, or the IMS Retrofit Academy. Without making this trip, we can't select a Certified Installer to begin the evaluation process. Due to this there are no UK Certified Installers.

The band wagon, IMS copy cats are taking themselves out fairly quickly.

[thom4782]

Originally Posted by paolodiquigley

If I have a double row then I won't bother with the upgrade as these appear a lot more reliable. I'm going to have the clutch and rms done so the mechanic should be able to establish which bearing I have at that point? If it is a single row I'll get one ordered quick so it can be upgraded while doing the other work. Seems to be my only option really

All bearings fail in time. It's just a question of when. If it were me, I would replace the bearing when doing a clutch / RMS job. It nothing else, it resets the "time to failure" countdown clock.

[Jake Raby]

Except the IMS Solution, its has no balls or races to fail. It remains the only permanent fix for this issue. ALL other technologies have time, or mileage ratings, as they are ball, or roller bearings.

Its also the only fully Patent protected IMS Retrofit.

No, Patent pending isn't the same, and many of the products that claim to be Patent pending have no filing information at the USPTO. When queried, their developers could not procure any current Provisional Patent documentation.

[paolodiquigley]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

To date no UK installers have cared enough about being properly trained to travel to my M96 Engine Rebuild classes, or the IMS Retrofit Academy. Without making this trip, we can't select a Certified Installer to begin the evaluation process. Due to this there are no UK Certified Installers.

The band wagon, IMS copy cats are taking themselves out fairly quickly.

This does explain why the few I've phoned nearby to me in Essex don't stock any ln bearings, just order them in when needed. So I assume that means work on my car, find out which version I need then order it in. Just means I will be without the car for however long that takes. The clutch has never been done and had 81000 miles on it so would I be right to have that done? I can't feel anything wrong with the current clutch but I've only had the car a couple of weeks so it's hard to compare to a new one. Really just having it done due to the mileage. Is this a course of action others would take?

[Duezzer]

Jake - The non bearing retro fit - does it work with dual row?

[pony13ca]

Originally Posted by paolodiquigley

This does explain why the few I've phoned nearby to me in Essex don't stock any ln bearings, just order them in when needed. So I assume that means work on my car, find out which version I need then order it in. Just means I will be without the car for however long that takes. The clutch has never been done and had 81000 miles on it so would I be right to have that done? I can't feel anything wrong with the current clutch but I've only had the car a couple of weeks so it's hard to compare to a new one. Really just having it done due to the mileage. Is this a course of action others would take?

My clutch just recently failed at around the same mileage. It felt completely normal, one minute, a little grabby, on the next change, and completely gone, with in 15 minutes. I took the car to an indie, listed on the LN website, and had the LN retrofit, clutch, RMS, and slave cylinder done. Feels like a new car now!!

[Perfectlap]

Check your local UK Porsche magazines like Total911 and Purely Porsche and check to see if perhaps some back issues discuss the IMS swap. Then do some research on the Porsche forums like Rennlist to see if there are members who can vouch for the shop.
These magazines often feature shops that work on on those cars with the steering wheel on the wrong side.

p.s.
I would be hesitant to go to a shop that didn't stock the right kind of IMS bearing.
The IMS swap has become a fairly routine part of clutch replacement.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Duezzer

Jake - The non bearing retro fit - does it work with dual row?

It is single row only.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

It is single row only.

That will change in just a few months. We finally received an order from a distributor that would order a large quantity of dual row IMS Solutions. This has been the only thing that kept the IMS Solution from going to market.


I am accepting vehicles for dual row IMS Solution retrofits now, here at our facility. Everything always happens here, first.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

That will change in just a few months. We finally received an order from a distributor that would order a large quantity of dual row IMS Solutions. This has been the only thing that kept the IMS Solution from going to market.


I am accepting vehicles for dual row IMS Solution retrofits now, here at our facility. Everything always happens here, first.

Very interesting. I assume it will be available through the normal channels?

[BFeller]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

That will change in just a few months. We finally received an order from a distributor that would order a large quantity of dual row IMS Solutions. This has been the only thing that kept the IMS Solution from going to market.


I am accepting vehicles for dual row IMS Solution retrofits now, here at our facility. Everything always happens here, first.

It's great that it will be available for the dual row. Off course, that leaves me with the other failure modes to worry about.

[Duezzer]

Thanks Jake,

Next Clutch and Flywheel I will be looking at the upgrade as I always liked that system most but was single row only.

Now I do the happy :dance: