Taing it to the next level- 3.6 engine build
 

It is now officially my turn in the hopper at Flat 6 Innovations. For the past few months I have provided snippets that I was having a 3.6 built by Jake, well now it officially starts. For the past 10 months I've been committed to a very specialized engine that Jake is building for me and I have finally convinced him to let me share a little about the build. I don't think my 2002 Boxster S will ever be the same after this engine is installed and I am happy I spent the extra money to take it to the next level. That level Jake calls a Stage II Plus engine of 3.6 litres.
A few folks have sent me PM's asking why I'm not going for a 3.8 or 4.0 or 4.2 that Jake also offers, to be honest the answer is simple........Jake wouldn't let me ! Now I know that sounds stupid at first but let me explain. When this first conversation took place I asked Jake what he offered for more power. When I told Jake how I like my power delivered he turned me on to something I had not heard was available from him or anyone else...........in a nut shell a 3.6 litre short stroke. Now those of you familiar with the 911 air cooled motors a 3.2 short stroke is a desirable build as it makes good power and likes to rev. That's what I wanted but didn't know was available. After seeing and hearing the components Jake and LN Engineering have designed to make this possible I had to have it ! I can't or won't divulge the trade secrets of this motor but no one is offering this engine in this configuration !
All I can say is it has the largest bore size for a M96 block anywhere in the world that I am aware of. This build will also include Jakes in house designed cam shafts which will put me on the ragged edge of emission standards tests passing. And finally the engine will include what Jake calls the R50 head profile. I'll keep the forum updated on the progress as Jake updates me. He is finishing up a 930 engine this week and then the build of mine starts next week with preliminary assembly. To say the least I am excited !!! I will ad pics to this post as I am provided them by Jake.

Very, very cool. :cool:

I'm so jealous!

This will be one awesome, the way it should be, Boxster
This would make any Hairdreser's hair get tangled

Don't forget to insist on Mobil 1

Keep us in the loop

I've learned to both say less, and advertise less. Doing so just gives the copycats a heads up about what to steal next.

With these LN cylinders and the process that we've developed that uses them, we at least don't have to worry about this being stolen, since it's proprietary for Flat 6 Innovations only. Further, because we decided to patent the unique process of cylinder fitment.

I had fun developing this combo, because its so radically different from what anyone else does with these engines. From the custom crankshaft, to the odd connecting rod length, to the pistons, none of this one is off the shelf and can't be bought by a copycat. This engine is also very difficult to assemble, since none of the components are in their original locations at the times when they are typically assembled. Another set of special tools had to be developed and built to assemble the engine, but only one set exists :-)

This combo isn't for everyone, but knowing what Richard likes, this was the ONLY way to go!

With this bore combination, things get started at 3.3 liters, but 3.6 is the most common combination thus far, and I have a 3.9 and 4.2 combo as well that works from this bore size.. The 4.2 is only available for 3 chain engines, since my R51 head profile is a must, and can only be applied to a 3 chain cylinder head.

And if I ever decide to turn the volume up, I can go 1.2mm larger with the bore than what it is now, but the copycats will have probably given up by then (probably not). Its already developed, and proven, just sitting there in reserve.

BTW- Anyone who insists on Mobil 1, well you'll not find a single quart of that stuff anywhere at either of my facilities. We only utilize the oil that we've developed, and its not a recommendation, its a mandate thats agreed upon before I collect the first dollar from a buyer.

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Jake - I jest

Yep, just wanted to make it clear where I stand!

I will definitely be watching this build closely. I may decide to make my Boxster a keeper and will eventually need a new engine.

Curious, any changes needed to the transmission or other driveline components to handle the extra power this motor will produce?

Why wait? Once the engine is properly rebuilt it should outlast you. Sounds like they are moving maximum torque to a higher rpm range, reducing strain to driveline components.

Jake and I discussed this as part of the transaction. In my case my 6 speed has already been gone through for the infamous 2nd gear issue. So no my transmission is good to go. When Jake pulls the engine the clutch disc will be looked at, if remotely suspect it will be replaced. Pressure plate is known to be good. IMS Solution was already added so that will be transferred. Driveline components like CV joints and axles are quite stout so based on past engines Jake has built/installed it doesn't look like these are an issue either. This will not be a 500 hp finicky undriveable beast, this will be an engine with good hp/torque throughout the entire rev range. It will be very driveable with even maybe better fuel mileage if I can keep my foot out of it. Jake and I have discussed " loose " numbers in regards to HP/torque but as Jake say's the proof will be on the dyno. Unfortunately I have to go back to work now :mad:

997 has a shorter stroke (allows them to go 3.6/3.8 vs the 996 3.4/3.6 with the same bore size); jake is most likely moving the 997 crank into the 996 (or a custom version of the same to fit the 996 bearing surfaces, etc.) and using a 3.4 bore diameter - that'll get you 3.6 (with the option to go to 3.8 without thinning the cyl walls too much). this is why 997.1 had piston slap issues - shorter stroke meant con rods at a higher angle to the piston and the alusil or whatever it was that Porsche used would wear; the stonger lne nikasil liner addresses that (Porsche moved to a better liner with the 997.2).

expensive way to go - need a whole new bottom end; cheaper to just bore out to 3.6 and be done with it, but you lose the benefits of reduced rotating mass, faster revving, etc.


edit to add - my post should read more as a question than a statement - ie, thinking out loud - as I try to appreciate the work being done here!

I don't understand your comments Radium....regarding 997 having a shorter stroke, but achieving greater CC for the same bore.😕!

yeah, I dropped the ball on this one, as the 997 lengthened the stroke (and the 3.6 996, apparently).

No, the 997 is NOT shorter stroke than 986/ 996. ALL 997 engines have an 82.8mm crank, the longest stroke of all M96/ M97 engine families.

Trust that these are not OEM components being utilized to gain this displacement. This is the final frontier, where all the OEM components are omitted from the internals of the engine.

Alongside this engine being built, is also the largest M96/M97 family engine ever built, tipping the scales at north of 4.4L. It'll take several years to optimize it, especially cylinder head wise. I have a goal of creating the craziest, most insane M96 in the world, and making it last. We'll crank up boost for that one and shut the freaking copy cats down on every front.

Ooh-Rah !!!

When you have to make sure that something is so unique and bad ass that it can't be copied, you just machine your own crankshaft from a 7" chuck of Chromoly.

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Gasp
 

Im in awe Jack

That crank is so good looking that there should be viewing ports in the crankcase. :)

This is when I wish this place was more like facebook and we had a "like" button to click

Oh my that is purty ! Jake I would like an album of pics as the build progresses if you can please. Will add them to my records on the car. Thanks

Jake,

Very impressive indeed, do you cut the cranks at your own facility?

.

That engine sounds like it will be awesome. Unbelievable combination. If I understand right - this will be an engine that revs quickly and puts horsepower/torque down with a result of not having the highest top speed for the bore? Perfect for the US with speed limits - not the top end of an autobahn car with unlimited speeds.

Another piece of the puzzle purchased today a Fidanza lightweight flywheel. Got lucky and found one on fleabay at a reduced cost. Jake it's coming your way !

I thought that the lightened flywheel was a no go, due to balance issues.

Not an issue when you are building the engine up from scratch and balancing everything.

I'd never use the lightweight flywheel unless we were using this crankshaft... I also make a lot of changes to things, including the knock sensors, and their sensitivity. It's very risky business, but I live to take risks and learn from them.

No risks on this one, I took the risks to support these initiatives with test engines years ago.

Yes, I dynamically balance everything in house, and I'll do this one personally. Here the person building the engine will do 100% of the tasks associated with that engine.

We don't look to outside manufacturers, or farm work out. We don't have to.

Ok, it makes sense when you balance all the parts together.

But, when the time comes to replace your light weight flywheel with a new one, how do you balance the new replacement…?

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I'm no expert on flywheels so hopefully Jake will chime in. But I'll take an educated guess. The flywheel I purchased has a replaceable surface. So if/when the surface wears down you don't replace the entire flywheel you just replace the wear surface. The bulk of the weight has to be the mass of the flywheel so I don't think balance will be off by just replacing the flywheel surface.

Even if you just replace the surface, its still a moving part. Seems like a lot of extra work and extra variables. I thought the point was to reduce both.

I spoke with jake about this and it's a non-issue. Jake has all the info stored in a computer. If/when in the future the flywheel wear surface has to be replaced he can pull up the data and replicate the balance. It's VERY NICE dealing with someone that is a true expert in his field ! :cheers:

Much easier than it would be with a oem dual-mass flywheel.

A couple of months ago someone who bought an engine from me in 2007 grenade the pressure plate that I had fitted and balanced when I built the engine. I pulled up his file from the balancer and matches the balance in less than an hour.

These are the reasons why we do all work in house, and depend on no outside resources.

WOOHOO the lightweight flywheel arrived at Jakes facility today ! He will start balancing tonight we are getting closer ! I'm thinking by this time next month you will hear a rumbling off to the east........that will be my engine roaring to life ! :D

I am following this thread with great interest. If going from a 3.2 to a 3.6 were to pick up substantial horsepower and torque, It'd change the personality of the car tremendously, keep up the good work guys!!

Slight setback :mad: The Fidanza flywheel I ordered which was supposed to fit my application did not. Turns out after sending pics to Fidanza they admitted they had a run of flywheels that they mis-labeled and therefore won't fit. The vendor I purchased from has been very diligent in getting Fidanza to issue a RMA and call tag. Jake ordered an Aasco and had it overnighted so we are back on plan. He sent a few teaser pics last night she is coming along nicely :D. I've got the S up on my lift today I'm going to install the GHL muffler that we are going to use for the 3.6 . I also have a Porsche Motorsport front spoiler lip to add to the 996 GT3 front bumper. Hey she's got to look good right ?

Like normal, the Aasco was 8= grams out of balance. I documented all of this for Aasco, for a complaint.

I'm assembling it now.. There's no other way to achieve 3.6 like this in the world.

Its far from a conventional combination. Thats what happens through 10 generations of development. Its why all the others try to copy us..

Good luck with that this time, copycats!

I installed the GHL muffler today wow does that sound great ! Sounds like a 917 flying down the Mulsanne straight :D . Unfortunately I had it too close to my new diffuser and it rotated up during a spirited drive and burnt the paint :mad:. But it can't be seen but still make me mad. The motorsport splitter went on with few issues and looks good. I'll only post pics whe the car is complete with the new engine. :cheers:

Late yesterday I got the call from Jake that I have been waiting for.........the short block is done and he is now ready for my car !!! Still working out the drop off details on when but sometime next week I'll be dropping off the S . There are some items on my current engine like exhaust, intake manifold, wiring harness etc. that will be transferred over to the new engine. Getting closer :D

Really looking forward to hearing more about the specs of the engine and how it compares to your stock 3.2. I have ridden in a Renegade V8 boxster, and it was truly one of the most amazing experiences I've ever had - completely transformed the car. That power lets you do things very differently. I'm hoping you get a taste of that with this build!

Jake and ffuerst911sc.

Good evening to you both. This sounds truly amazing. Respects must also go to the loveablity of the gorgeous machine called a boxster in being such an object of beauty that is brings both artist and patron together with a take-it-to-a-new-level project like this.

It is more than a car, being typically Porsche, it is a love affair that never ends. A bond measured not in horse power, but in friendships.

Looking forward to the thrill of seeing new posts on this.

--

I have said in previous posts if you're a number cruncher and every penny you spend has to make money then this isn't for you. On a balance sheet what I'm doing makes no sense. But being an enthusiest it makes perfect sense. I have been fortunate enough to own five Porsche's in my lifetime. Each one was enjoyed and modified for my pleasure. I made money on some and lost money on others but I enjoyed each one of them to the fullest. I am getting closer to retirement and made the decision that this will probably be my last one so I want it to be exactly as I want it. And I believe in just two to three more weeks it will be :D To me she will be a sleeper that will surprise a few folks. I'll drive it to work when sunny, autocross her as much as I can and squeeze in a few DE's. She will be driven no garage queen.
But who know's maybe in 5 years Jake calls me to let me know he's building 5 litre flat sixes and am I interested ? Stay tuned :D