Automakers to gearheads: Stop repairing cars
 

Didn't Apple try this a few years back....and LOST??


Automakers are supporting provisions in copyright law that could prohibit home mechanics and car enthusiasts from repairing and modifying their own vehicles.

In comments filed with a federal agency that will determine whether tinkering with a car constitutes a copyright violation, OEMs and their main lobbying organization say cars have become too complex and dangerous for consumers and third parties to handle.

Allowing them to continue to fix their cars has become "legally problematic," according to a written statement from the Auto Alliance, the main lobbying arm of automakers.

Automakers to gearheads: Stop repairing cars

Then Automakers can p*** off. When I buy a car it is MINE bumper to bumper, to do as I see fit.

The reason I will never again own an iphone is because they have their hand up my kilt the entire time as if I'm privileged to borrow the sacred device from them. They force software updates until they decide to stop supporting my perfectly functioning device, at which point they expect me to purchase another.

I suspect that the billions of dollars spent at auto parts stores will come in to play at some point, and this will be shot down. If not then I have purchased my last "new" car.

Too complex. Pffft. It's nothing more than a relatively good puzzle.

This is ludicrous. What is next, I can't paint my own house? I can't mow my own lawn? Corporations have gotten too powerful when stuff like this happens. :mad:

If they go ahead with this then every thing a manufacturer makes should be guaranteed FOREVER, if I have to get repairs done by them. Where is the incentive to do a good job if I have to go to them and there is no competition from myself or an indie?:matchup:

Better not sing or hum or whistle your favorite song in the shower!!

I'm sure there are some valid points, as cars are getting more and more complicated. Look at how much aluminum is integrated in our cars and the shops that we trust to repair them after a wreak.


Besides I take every precaution to protect myself and others from harm when I work on my own cars...

Give me a 2x4 and a hammer I can fix anything!

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...ad/photo75.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3.../ProppedUp.jpg

give me a torch and I'll fix that gas leak...


http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c5/chuck1026//ti1.jpg

I found these spacer blocks behind ECS...

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...3/DSC00808.jpg

http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/class...-on-bricks.jpg
Must be OK if I saw it on the internet!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-X1DNvwrKH8...Jack_Stand.jpg

We can go do some barbecuing after I'm done with this...


How is it even possible so many of us are still alive after all these years. Darwin was wrong.

lol

If this happens it will have been my last new car. I've been debating for the last few years as cars become more wired and automated if I really even want a new car. For one I want to be the one in control of driving it, two, if I want to change anything about the car I can do so, three, I really don't like some company being able to track and monitor my car without my consent.

With the current direction I see a growing cottage industry of auto rebuilders taking old desirable cars and rebuilding them to like new for enthusiasts and people that don't want an iPhone like car tracking their every move and having crap forced onto them that they don't want.

"Corporations are people" - Mitt Romney 2012

Corporate cronyism at its finest. The liberals will support it while claiming that the Republicans drove the small shops out of business....:p

"Mitt Romney's a moron" - paulofto 2 minutes ago.

Not a huge news to me. Already in place in China and policy established by the Ministry of Transport - not all strongly enforced however.

Any maintenance or repairs required needs to be carried out by an 'officially' appointed installer/mechanic. Technically, only the dealers are appointed by the ministry of transport here loll

If let's say you have an accident, and after scrutiny, an inspector finds that your brake pads were installed by JackThePartChanger (Indy?), both are accountable: a)the vehicle owner and b)the (illegal) installer. Insurance won't pay.. blah blah.. you see where this goes

Luck with finding a cheap and 'legal' indy/mechanic here (all illegal stuff really)

There... some culture difference for you guys lolll

"Already in place in China" this from the land of knock off Rolex's and Gucci bags. Copyright laws appear to be unenforcible in the land of tea and oranges. And here in Manitoba i can see the public car insurance monopoly getting on this bandwagon as a way to deny claims.

LMAO


That's pretty good...

Ding Ding Ding... brilliant isn't it!

Automotive industry.. worth more than gold if you ask me. Going to get harder for the small guys (JackThePartChanger) to get a chuck of it. Coming your way soon I'm afraid

There are always ways to make the stupid laws implemented work, look at Singapore...

There is a law that requires everyone to flush the public toilet but no way to enforce it. So what do they do? Make it mandatory that all public bathrooms have automatic flush.

There is a law against spitting out gum. Okay no way to enforce it but to make the sale of gum illegal.

From another site. How mfgs can get around this like JD did.

"In a particularly spectacular display of corporate delusion, John Deere—the world’s largest agricultural machinery maker —told the Copyright Office that farmers don’t own their tractors. Because computer code snakes through the DNA of modern tractors, farmers receive “an implied license for the life of the vehicle to operate the vehicle."

I wouldn't be too quick to point the finger at the corps as much as I would our own government that permits this kind of behavior. They like it. It gives the government more control in the end.

I could see them requiring you to be a red seal mechanic to work on them.
I am a red seal millwright, I work on overhead cranes and hoists. By law here you need 10 000 hours expierence to inspect them and 8,000 hours to repair them. You also need to be familiar with the brand of hoist. That being said how many times has somebody killed some one with their vehicle due too shorty repair. If they want to do anything ban cheap aftermarket parts. How to oem brakes compare to cheap brands out there?

Any way you go it will be hard to enforce

Well, not that difficult.

Say your newish car was involved in an accident serious enough to get the law involved. All they have to do is check the damaged cars mileage, check when it was last serviced (easily on line from the manufacturer's data base) and then deduce if the servicing was up to date (all OK your honour) or, because the owner was completing the services himself it was overdue, therefore technically not safe to drive. Insurance companies would not need much more info to refuse the claim on "safety inspections and service out of date therefore claim denied" Of course the kicker would be if they found the installation of non genuine parts.

This scenario could be enacted by the insurance companies before they write out the policy "mileage of the car sir - one moment while I check with the manufacturer' database to verify"

If the people are sheep, they will accept that level of government control in a Democratic society, but if there is anyone that values Freedom and does not accept total control by the government, we'll be in Texas cleaning our guns.

I suspect some troubling times are ahead before the Public decides they have had enough and cuts the legs out from under the government because they clearly represent their own desires and not that of the public they are supposed to represent.

I would not buy a car that has that stipulation.

Just wait till the Electric car battery crisis occurs, that will shake the publics confidence for blindly believing the current Electrics are good for the environment, but thats a whole other can of worms.

Life is becoming like the Movies "Idiocracy", a stupid representation of the future that we are starting to resemble more everyday.

:mad:

The people that make our laws and form our fed and local gov are so far disconnected from us wrench slingers (hobby and to save $$$) and influenced by lobbyists who talk their talk. The rich, elite making laws over people they don't have anything in common with.

It's like plumbing boards making rules for apprenticeships. Nobody asked the contractors. Just the good old boy club and what best suits their needs and ideas for the future. They lobby the law makers at a level you and I don't get to participate in.

New Jersey recently got on-board with 20+ other states in getting rid of vehicle inspection as part of the regular inspection process. The state DMV no only check for emissions and take a look to see if you have your cats still installed. While this is certainly convenient, I really have to wonder how many people put off brake and tire replacement because they "intend" to DIY or because they don't have the money. Seems to me like you can't have DIY repairing without some manner of vehicle inspection at a regular interval.

I think a crashed car should be sent to a junk yard and never fixed.

This will never pass, at least not in the current form. Way too much money in taxes for the Government to pass this.

The issue is whether a DIY repair or modification might infringe on the manufacturer's intellectual property rights.

The John Deere story took this argument to its logical (but IMHO wrongheaded) conclusion - that a product protected by patent is not actually purchased by the customer, it is only licensed for use to the customer.

And there is ample legal precedent in the software world to support JD's claim.

This is both worrisome, irritating, and frustrating to those of us who feel that what we buy, we own.

So, you can't fix it, but can you smash it intentionally? Paint it a different color? Aftermarket seat? Fuzzy dice?

Did JD win that case? What were farmers doing that prompted this, adding blowers to their tractors?

I can see this with software, once it's sold, that's all the Government is going to make on it.

Modification to cars are a whole different game. There are companies out there like Lingenfelter, Hennessy, Shelby and many more, plus all the after market companies. There is just too much money in taxes for the Government to allow this.

I imagine SEMA would have something to say about this topic.

While I certainly don't support them - I do understand their viewpoint. An electric car will fry you if you touch it in the wrong spot while trying to work on the electrical or motor system. There are only a handful of qualified GM technicians in the entire country that can work on the Volt. They will tow the car across entire states, for free, to those specific technicians. Electric/hybrid cars do bring a significant issue about 3rd party and DIY repair and safety. Aside from who is actually qualified to fix those systems - electrical is a lot different than combustion.

This impacts the individual on a different level, would be my belief. They have the ability to prevent a aftermarket source of what ever part, software, etc., that could be manufactured form being sold. If after market is control by patent, copyright laws then how would you work on your car short of purchasing from the manufacturer. Manufactured parts fall under a patent time period 7 to 14 years, on the other hand software has no such time line. They could go after any company that produces an interface to modify the software.

They may also be able to prevent dismantlers from re-selling parts. Similar to restrictions that Microsoft can impose on anyone trying to re-sell a used operating system.

Wasn't there an old economic theory that communism and capitalism are both creeping towards each other? One by tightening regulation - the other by relaxing it?

They are so far apart, they could never be the same at any point and time. You would actually want to compare Communism to Democracy.

Actually our Democracy is leaping towards Socialism and Communism is reaching out to Capitalism.

Democracy is leaving the building on all fronts. :(

DMCA is a vast 1998 copyright law that (among other things) governs the line between software and hardware.

The Copyright Office has been asked to decide what modifications, hacks, and repairs are allowed under the law. They have to hold hearings and solicit comments and word is that they will make a decision (issue guidelines) by July.

Several manufacturers (including John Deere and General Motors) recently submitted comments as part of this process.

JD argued that allowing people to alter the software—even for the purpose of repair—would “make it possible for pirates, third-party developers, and less innovative competitors to free-ride off the creativity, unique expression and ingenuity of vehicle software.”

Now, you have to understand, JD is not literally saying that owners can't repair their tractors. But JD is saying that owners shouldn't be allowed to go into John Deere's software and make changes even if it is to perform a repair.

The question is whether changing software in a vehicle would be considered a modification or a repair and whether either of those would be allowed under the law.

IMHO this law has been misused. The original intent was to shut down illegal use of someone else's software IP, but the meaning has been expanded repeatedly by the courts to cover all kinds of crazy concepts like this one.

Thanks for the explanation.

Let me ask you this. What Timco posted, is it actually geared towards not allowing people to modify their car at all or is more like the JD case?

I think their using the JD case as a starting point or example for the entire car....

Ok lets say you changed the intake system of your car. This causes the ECU to compensate for the extra air and basically it's making the ECU run outside it's intended parameter. Would that be considered as tampering with their "intellectual property"?

They'll get my wrench when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.

I'm still curious about this. Anyone?

I guess I won't be buying those new tail lights after all :mad:

That's awesome.