New Guy Checking In

[Pdwight]

For all that work is a bargain

[fins]

Question: My build date was 12/2000 (Finland). The IMS recall build date range is May 4, 2001 and February 21, 2005. It appears my VIN is out of the VIN range also. Do I still pursue the IMS Retrofit/Solution?

[Redboxs]

Originally Posted by fins

Question: My build date was 12/2000 (Finland). The IMS recall build date range is May 4, 2001 and February 21, 2005. It appears my VIN is out of the VIN range also. Do I still pursue the IMS Retrofit/Solution?

There is a lot of speculation on IMS this and IMS that. Long story short, yes. the repair is up to you and you don't have to do it, the failure rate is low. (Higher for single row). These engines have a whole bunch of "modes of failure ". You could do the IMS and then the next day have your AOS take your engine out.

[fins]

Originally Posted by Redboxs

There is a lot of speculation on IMS this and IMS that. Long story short, yes. the repair is up to you and you don't have to do it, the failure rate is low. (Higher for single row). These engines have a whole bunch of "modes of failure ". You could do the IMS and then the next day have your AOS take your engine out.

Redbox, my parents live in Norman -- I'n down here in Mississippi. So back to the IMS -- thanks for the advice and heightened sense of paranoia....

[Franco]

Congrats Beautiful car. Welcome to the forum.

I have a 1997 and don't worry about IMS, just enjoy the car and spend less time on the forums.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by fins

Question: My build date was 12/2000 (Finland). The IMS recall build date range is May 4, 2001 and February 21, 2005. It appears my VIN is out of the VIN range also. Do I still pursue the IMS Retrofit/Solution?

Odds are you have a single row bearing. That bearing is 14 years old now.
Your car has sat idle for long periods. Odds are also high that the oil was not changed immediately before going into storage (the only way you should store it). That means it was sitting in acidic oil. Acidic oil and low miles are the special formula for big IMS issues. How many total oil changes has your car had in the last 14 years? If the number is not in the double digits, that's a bad thing.

Dual row or single row, you should get it replaced as both of these will fail if subjected to enough neglect. The IMS can fail because of contaminated oil as mentioned, or because of oil starvation. These appear to be the root causes of IMS failure. Straight swapping the IMS doesn't really address this issue it just removes a potentially compromised bearing for a fresh one. Each bearing has a shelf life, like all bearings, especially a sealed one inside of a hot engine. And that's the important thing, get the original one out of there. Or you can go with the Solution and avoid the effects of contamination and oil starvation on this weak spot entirely. It will pay for itself if you log enough miles on the car and you in fact have a single row bearing. Dual row bearing last much longer but are still susceptible to oil contamination and oil starvation.
That's why people who think they're out of the woods while riding around on a nearly 20 year old dual row bearing are making a mistake. Especially if that car has seen little mileage. You should always make a point of driving the car for at least an hour every week or two. That burns off the build up. We have one forum member from Florida who posted over 300K miles and is still on the original IMS. He maintains strict maintenance and burns off a lot of buildup by rackign up 20K+ miles a year. With these cars low mileage can be a bad thing if you are not on top of the oil changes and the water pump/coolant/hoses/cap/etc. Change the water pump every five years and oil once a year at least and your engine has a good shot of living a long life.

In your shoes I would first do a leak down and compression test before you spend all this money. With your mileage its probably fine. The second step would be to inspect the oil pan for any glitter. If all you see is oil down there, then do the IMS and water pump. Once the trans mission is down, your mechanic will confirm if the Solution is an option or if you can go with a straight dual row retrofit.

Also, don't listen to any percentages on likelihood of failure, or anecdotal feedback on how many single row failures someone has seen. Those cars have absolutely NOTHING to do with the current condition of your car as every single row bearing car was treated to different maintenance and driving habits.
No one has maintained a log of all the known IMS failures since 1996 so any attempt to put a number on the likelihood of your single row failure is merely a guess. Sometimes these guesses coincide with other guesses, but the underlying data is still majorly incomplete. Too many people are taking comfort in these soft numbers while a ready made solution to address this issue is within reach.

[fins]

Perfectlap, thanks for your insight. I'm headed down the IMS update route via the Porsche dealership in Jackson, MS. No evidence of debris in oil filter during my last oil change a few days ago -- I'm assuming that's a good thing.

[jb92563]

To make your choice even more difficult.

If you search on IMS preemptive replacements you will find that most folks who had their IMS done and examined the removed bearing found that it seemed to be in perfectly good shape.

I think it really comes down to your personality, whether your IMS should be changed when nothing is indicating a problem.

If you are a worry wart and thinking about it will hamper your enjoyment, then get the IMS done.

If your the type that will monitor your oil condition with filter examinations and magnetic oil plug and only think about it at oil change time, plus 99% (dual row bearings) chance nothing will ever come of it then you could skip the IMS change.

With a 14year old car there are other things that will come up and an IMS is pretty low on the probability list.

[Chuck W.]

First off, great looking car. You will love it. I have a 2001 S I bought new. It is currently at 25,000 miles.

It is difficult to know what IMS you have without looking at the housing. And to see this you have to remove the transmission.

According to a Pelican article my Boxster has a dual row bearing. The car was manufactured in March of 2001. I found my engine number (passenger side of the engine) and it falls within the dual row range. HOWEVER, every respected mechanic on this board has found that this is not always correct.

It is a tough call whether to do the IMS baring replacement or not.

In the main time... enjoy the car.

Here is part of the Pelican article....


Which Bearing is Inside Your Engine?

The first step in replacing the bearing is to figure out which one you have in your engine. There were three variations installed over the years. Early cars typically have a large double row bearing that has a snap clip inside the bearing. Porsche later went to a single-row bearing design when the timing chain design was modified (see Figure 5 for a comparison of the two). Then, around model year 2006, Porsche installed a third version which is not replaceable. The supposed cut-off on engine numbers are listed in the Porsche factory Technical Bulletins, but unfortunately, these numbers are not 100% accurate, so you need to look at the bearing housing that is installed into your engine in order to be 100% sure as to which bearing you have (see Figure 5).

The question of which bearing is inside your engine is probably the number one question asked when people read this article. Porsche's electronic parts catalog lists the following engine numbers as the cutoffs for the various engines:

Engine Number - Model - Bearing Type

Up to engine # M 651 12851 - Boxster 2.7L M96.22 - Double Row Bearing
Up to engine # M 671 11237 - Boxster S 3.2L M96.21 - Double Row Bearing
From engine # M 651 12852 - Boxster 2.7L M96.22 - Single Row Bearing
From engine # M 651 11238 - Boxster S 3.2L M96.21 - Single Row Bearing

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by jb92563

To make your choice even more difficult.

If you search on IMS preemptive replacements you will find that most folks who had their IMS done and examined the removed bearing found that it seemed to be in perfectly good shape.

I think it really comes down to your personality, whether your IMS should be changed when nothing is indicating a problem.

If you are a worry wart and thinking about it will hamper your enjoyment, then get the IMS done.
.

I'm pretty sure I recall hearing one of our IMS experts saying that an exterior evaluation of the IMS bearing upon extraction really is not conclusive of bearing being in its early stages of eventual failure. The bearing needs to be taken apart... you know all forensic like.

I don't think this is something to do with being a worry wart. It's a known problem with a fairly non-invasive way of addressing it. It's like walking past a crooked painting on the living room wall, a painting that you paid $15K for. How many times are you going to walk past that painting...

To the OP, the oil and filter was most likely changed in your car before it was sold. You'd have to check the pan if you're hunting for glitter.
Cracked peper corn size fragments in the oil filter -- in the unlikely event that you are un-rolling the oil filter at the exact time that the IMS bearing was imploding -- means that you've got an engine to rebuild, and do not put the key back in the ignition unless you want loose IMS ball bearings grenading the engine whole. Which means there really is no way to monitor when the amount of time you have left to do a timely IMS is past and an engine rebuild can be avoided.
People who put off single row bearing upgrades until the clutch needs fixing are nuts in my book. The thing is once you address the IMS and put in a new clutch, you get the full utility of a new clutch. By putting it off you're really only saving yourself a few hundred bucks in clutch wear that may be left on that old factory unit while potentially taking a HUGE risk.

[fins]

Chuck W., what was your build date?

[Chuck W.]

Originally Posted by fins

Chuck W., what was your build date?

03/01

My engine number is M96 21 671 09227.

3.2 S engines with serial number up to 671 11237 should have double row IMS bearings.

Here are some photos I got from Google. The engine number is easily found on the left side of the engine just in from the right rear wheel. It is a shame that it is not a definitive answer on which IMS we have.

[fins]

Originally Posted by Chuck W.

03/01

My engine number is M96 21 671 09227.

3.2 S engines with serial number up to 671 11237 should have double row IMS bearings.

12/00 - one would think....

[Chuck W.]

Originally Posted by fins

12/00 - one would think....

One problem, I have read, is that Porsche would build engines way in advance (perhaps years) then grab them as then needed them. As a result we are in a very gray area. Based on the maintenance I have given my Boxster and the likelihood that it has a dual row IMS, I am going to drive it and enjoy it and skip doing the IMS upgrade... for now.

[Steve Tinker]

Just to add numerical confirmation & confusion, my ROW 3.2 2001 S was built in January 2001 with engine #671 07779.
When I replaced the IMS in 2010, it was a dual row bearing, but as Chuck correctly alludes to, the engines are a grey area. The engine / transmission assemblies were built by Porsche (@ Stuttgart) and shipped to Finland for final assembly. Having seen vehicle manufacturers with my own eyes, the engine / gearbox assemblies are pulled out of storage and loaded onto the assembly lines "add hock" with no respect to bolting them into the chassis in numerical sequence.