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Old 11-14-2014, 04:48 PM   #1
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Unhappy 99 keeps flooding and wont start - 2.5L

Hello All.

Here is the story - Bought the 99 last year - In beautiful shape had under 65,000 miles - Had the safety done and put about $1300 in. Minor stuff.

Put about 15.000 km on it over the summer and this winter thought I would do some work to it.

On my to do list was - IMS, (by European Parts) Clutch and Flywheel and a RMS.
While I had it up on the hoist also put fresh plugs in it. Fresh Oil and new air and oil filter.

Everything went as planned - IMS went in nice as did the new oiling system. RMS, Flywheel and clutch beautiful - Had bought new boots for the plugs but the ones that were in it were like new so just put in a new set of Bosch plugs.

Went to fire it up and it flooded right away - notice the gas peddle felt odd - found the throttle cable had slid off the cam. So pulled plugs let it air out and tried again - no luck - it flooded again. Pulled plugs cleaned and dried and then thought - I have new boots lets put them on.

Car fired up and purred like a kitten, sounded beautiful - let it run a couple min maybe 3 and shut it down. It was getting late and thought I would put it all together the next day.

The next day put car all back together - covers on lowered hoist getting ready for a test run - Went to fire it up and it FLOODED again. Pulled plugs went to town bought new plugs - flooded again -

Had the bright idea to put di-electric grease in the electrical connectors when we did the work - - thought I had weekend a signal to the ECU or something - pulled all connectors and cleaned out the grease. - Put plugs in and ..... wait for it... FLOODED!!!

It comes close to firing but very weekly. The plugs are fuel wet. Pulled out air cleaner checked it - brand new and air blows thru it.

Looking for some ideas on what to check - Ran once beautifully out of 7 or so attempts.

Thanks

Duezzer

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Old 11-14-2014, 07:51 PM   #2
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My first suggestion is to go back and check that all of the electrical connections are good. Disconnect and carefully re-connect anything that you disconnected when you did the work. My car did something similar to this when I didn't fully seat the connector for the MAF after doing some work.
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Old 11-15-2014, 04:34 PM   #3
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I will go back and check them all.

Thanks
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:39 PM   #4
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still no start

Pulled apart every connector I had undone thru this repair. Checked for broken pins and also cleaned each with contact cleaner - Car would not fire up - plugs still wet with fuel - makes minor attempt to fire but just wont catch - Also checked all vacuum lines that were anywhere that there was work done - Still no start.

Anybody have any other ideas for me to try. This is getting or just is frustrating.

Thanks in advance.

Duezzer
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:24 PM   #5
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could be

that the crank positioning sensor is acting up..?
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Old 11-17-2014, 07:32 PM   #6
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I have had this happen to mine about 3 times in the past year. Every time I didn't let it warm up for several minutes before shutting off. Then when I went to restart later even the next day. It flooded. I have to put the pedal to the floor and crank till she starts and let the cylinders burn out. Someone may rebuke me for this but it works for me.
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Old 11-17-2014, 10:09 PM   #7
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1) Lock / unlock the car 2-3 times to activate the security system.

2) Now make sure you have a good spark at the plug. Remove one of the coil packs (the easiest to get to), plug in one of your original spark plugs and get someone to crank the engine while you hold the plug body onto the engine. I suggest you wear gloves or use insulated pliers to minimise electric shocks.
If no spark there is a bigger problem than flooding.

2) If you have spark at the plug, do as per jdlmodelt suggests and push the throttle fully open while cranking the engine for 10-15 seconds - you should get it to fire on a couple of cylinders but keep the throttle wide open until its firing on all six.
This has worked for me in the past after shutting down the engine after a few seconds running.
Keep us informed of the outcome....
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:22 AM   #8
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The Flood

Thanks for the ideas - We tried the foot to floor and cranked for almost a min.

Quit because of the smell of raw fuel coming out the tail pipe and was worried about cylinder damage.

Pulled plugs right after the attempts to dry out the cylinders.

It did try to fire but not hard enough to catch.

Will try the key on off 3 times. Cant hurt.
Going to pick up a spark plug tester to make sure my spark is hot.
I have spark just not sure by looking at it if it is good enough.

Thanks for all the feedback and will let you know how I make out.

Glenn
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Old 11-22-2014, 04:01 PM   #9
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Hi there. Update on progress
Installed a set of plugs that are one heat range hotter. Car took 3 attempts before it started. I let it run for 20 min to warn up really well and clear out any residual fuel. Went to back it out of the garage. It stalled right away. Then hard to start. Once running again tried to back out again. It did the same thing. Shut down as soon as there was any load on the engine. Also tried to move it forward. Same issue. Very hard to start. Lots of spitting and sputtering then suddenly it catches and runs very smooth. Sometimes when it just fires up after a hard start if I let it go down to idle to quick it also quits running. When I say it quits it is a quick shut down. No spitting or spurting just quits. Looking for any ideas.. thanks in advance
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Old 11-22-2014, 04:31 PM   #10
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How is the fuel pressure? Have you measured it?
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Old 11-22-2014, 04:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duezzer View Post
Hi there. Update on progress
Installed a set of plugs that are one heat range hotter. Car took 3 attempts before it started. I let it run for 20 min to warn up really well and clear out any residual fuel. Went to back it out of the garage. It stalled right away. Then hard to start. Once running again tried to back out again. It did the same thing. Shut down as soon as there was any load on the engine. Also tried to move it forward. Same issue. Very hard to start. Lots of spitting and sputtering then suddenly it catches and runs very smooth. Sometimes when it just fires up after a hard start if I let it go down to idle to quick it also quits running. When I say it quits it is a quick shut down. No spitting or spurting just quits. Looking for any ideas.. thanks in advance
Dang! No power sounds like the timing is not lined up right to me. Maybe its just a lot of air in the fuel but after running for 20 minutes, seems like there would be no air in the fuel system. If she ran fine before you changed the IMS, there should be no new issues. You didn't jump a tooth? You re checked any wires you took loose for the IMS project? Hmmmmmmm...........
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Old 11-22-2014, 07:14 PM   #12
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I do not have a fuel pressure gauge - but will ask a buddy if he has one.
The way the car revs so freely when in neutral I really don't suspect a fuel pressure issue but one never knows

When the car does catch and fires up it sounds beautiful. Will sit at idle nice - no hunting no spitting or sputtering, Can be freely revved up and can hold at any RPM and is steady.

Can you actually slip one tooth on a sprocket and still have a smooth running car?

How does one check to see if all the chains are in the correct position? - We locked all the chains and the pulley before we removed the old bearing. Removed all the locks after the install was complete.

Thanks for the ideas
Keep them coming
Appreciate the Help.

Duezzer
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Old 11-22-2014, 08:08 PM   #13
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When we did the work we also replaced the AOS - Is there a chance that a bad AOS could cause these issues. Improperly installation cause these problems.

I have looked at the connections as best I can - on the top the connecting pipe had a broken clamp that went onto the top of the AOS - I fixed it up and seems to be holding well. If i wiggle the pipe slightly it makes no difference to how the car is running.

Duzzer
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Old 11-23-2014, 05:45 PM   #14
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Fired up the car today - started great but once warmed up it would not idle properly and was tough to start.

Borrowed a OBD code reader from a buddy
Had 3 codes in - 2 were related to O2 sensors
1 was the crank sensor

Cleared codes - Ran car and let it quit a couple times - No CEL came on
Put OBD on again - Crank sensor failure code.

Did a little reading on Pelican site to see how tough it is to change and if it could be done with trany in - Seems it can be changed without trany removal - Just a bit of a crap job.

A few of the people who wrote in about the sensor failure seem to be having the same issues as I have - a couple were right after clutch changes also.

Will order in a new one tomorrow and may take a night this week and put it in.

Hope this is it.

Again - Thanks for all the help and the push to get a code reader.

Will be purchasing one of my own soon.
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:04 AM   #15
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Installed the new Crank Position Sensor
Car still overfuels on start up.
Back to searching for a vacuum leak or something.
GRRRRRR.
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Old 12-17-2014, 09:12 AM   #16
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So we did some investigation and belive the ICV ( Idle Control Valve) is not working and this is causing the hard start / no start issue.
The car reacts the same with the ICV plugged in or not plugged in - tried to clean and lubercate it, Did not help.

Wondering if anyone had a spare one of these around we could work out a deal on.


Bosch Part # 0 280 140 572
Porsche Part # 996 606 160 01

Thanks,

Duezzer
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Old 03-19-2015, 02:13 PM   #17
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For anyone following this thread,

Looks like we found the issue.

Bent teeth on the flywheel

We built a stay for the DMF to keep it in place that worked off the teeth on the starter ring - and also had the pin in on the front to stop any movement while it was tourqued so quite sure this must of happened during shipping.

Just missed the dang thing

Here is a pic - Top is the new - bottom is the old.

Still cant believe I missed this.
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Old 03-19-2015, 02:41 PM   #18
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looks like my last visit to the dentist.

I guess another reason to do the flywheel when you pro-actively replace the iMSB.
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Old 03-19-2015, 06:41 PM   #19
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That was the new flywheel - it came damaged and I missed seeing the bent teeth when I instlled it - fought for the last 4 months trying to figure out what the heck was going on - Finally towed car to a shop - % hrs later they diagnosed the car flywheel was the issue - Took car home and low and behold yes it was. Now going to see if I can get an exchange or send it to the orthodontist.
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Old 03-20-2015, 06:07 AM   #20
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^ wow. I would be hopping mad. Who makes that flywheel?

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