When I was a kid, it was cow tipping...

[Timco]

Two distinct issues here.

1...Gallows humor. Guy falls into a septic tank and drowns, or the whole "Darwin Awards" thing. "Guy jumps against the glass in a high rise every year and one year he finally goes through" kind of thing... While no less tragic for the families involved, that unfortunate aspect of their demise is certainly there. Not your thing? Find that funny? Totally human nature. The only thing we have in common for sure here is Boxsters.

2...The vandalism being reasoned out or condoned. (We simply put dog crap in an old purse and set it in the parking lot of anystore, USA. People though they had hit gold and almost always concealed it as they got into their car and drove off. The purse would fly out at different distances from the parking lot.... )

Smashing someone's car? Breaking their glass or property? Insurance will get it? Totally unacceptable. So, rocks through someone's house windows is OK? As long as it doesn't do more than about $3-5k in damage and insurance will cover it? Can we get a scale or graph made up that shows the cool to uncool scale of typical youth offenses, starting with graffiti and ending with murder? These acts against other people's personal property are inexcusable. Drinking in the park? Smoking some weed? That does not effect me and in my opinion is far less indicative of future behavior than willfully damaging someone's personal property while sober. Throwing rocks at a warehouse is even more seemingly 'victimless' because it's just a building. But cars are personal. Doesn't matter if they barely afforded their first car or if it's some rich guy's loaner car.

I am on the side of Texas here, but the comment about shooting kids (or people?) is absurd. It's about being able to own something nice, and know if it's sitting on your property, you can defend it. That is a fine idea with me. Why shouldn't I be able to stop you from just walking up and taking my car or dog or golf clubs?

As for cow tipping, my ex wife and her friends were from the farming community outside of town. All of their friends swore it was soo fun. I never really bought into it, but always thought that seemed insanely cruel. I like animals.

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by Timco

I am on the side of Texas here, but the comment about shooting kids (or people?) is absurd. It's about being able to own something nice, and know if it's sitting on your property, you can defend it. That is a fine idea with me. Why shouldn't I be able to stop you from just walking up and taking my car or dog or golf clubs?

Please someone tell me Tim is joking. Tim, come back mate. Life cannot be terminated only for the sake of defending an object. You should call the nearest emergency service(s) and keep your love ones (the real/living ones I mean) safe until help arrive. Double chk with your local police dept to confirm but it should go along those lines I'm pretty sure.

No-no shooting kids - its only a few cars lol

[Timco]

Originally Posted by Nine8Six

Please someone tell me Tim is joking. Tim, come back mate. Life cannot be terminated only for the sake of defending an object. You should call the nearest emergency service(s) and keep your love ones (the real/living ones I mean) safe until help arrive. Double chk with your local police dept to confirm but it should go along those lines I'm pretty sure.

No-no shooting kids - its only a few cars lol

I didn't make those laws. And Texas seems fine with it.

Sorry, but if you're on my property trying to take what's mine, I have no sympathy for you. I've worked hard for everything I have and intend to keep it, and will defend it. The easy solution is to not steal or mess with other people's stuff. I find it interesting the guy who most downplays these actions and their severity is most opposed to this line of reasoning......

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by Timco

I didn't make those laws. And Texas seems fine with it.

jesus christ..... I didn't know that the use of lethal force was officially supported by law for simply protecting "personal" lifeless objects. I don't think anyone in Texas would shoot down a bored teen who just ran out of tripleAAA batteries and decided to go flip a few Smart Cars anyway. But regardless... still a pretty tough community man... ouch.

Heard a few times about the 'self'defence' laws here and there (Stand your Rights?), which I'm cool with, but was convinced that the above TX law was all made up by Hollywood. Or only once existed centuries ago.

Guess some of you get to see the naïve and ignorant part of me (the little Canuck boy huh lol). I don't even recall seeing a real weapon, even less knowing how to load and shoot one of those thing

I do know all about making superb and better-than-oem headlights however. Like some already recommended... I'll just stick to that

[Timco]

Originally Posted by Nine8Six

jesus christ..... I didn't know that the use of lethal force was officially supported by law for simply protecting "personal" lifeless objects. I don't think anyone in Texas would shoot down a bored teen who just ran out of tripleAAA batteries and decided to go flip a few Smart Cars anyway. But regardless... still a pretty tough community man... ouch.

Heard a few times about the 'self'defence' laws here and there (Stand your Rights?), which I'm cool with, but was convinced that the above TX law was all made up by Hollywood. Or only once existed centuries ago.

Guess some of you get to see the naïve and ignorant part of me (the little Canuck boy huh lol). I don't even recall seeing a real weapon, even less knowing how to load and shoot one of those thing

I do know all about making superb and better-than-oem headlights however. Like some already recommended... I'll just stick to that

Hey, thanks for using The Lord's name in vain!

Maybe you're still looking at it wrong. Since when are teens the only ones who burglarize people? Since when is boredom the only motive? Why stay so fixated on the punishment and ages and sweet, innocent motives and not simply agree those bored teens should not be stealing other people's hard earned private property? You do realize you can't walk out of a movie theater and shoot someone in your car, right? This is a personal property issue that applies when you're on your land. Away from home? Well. I guess you just need to learn to laugh at the antics of those crazy, bored kids who just wanted to borrow some batteries from your car...

I don't own lifeless objects. I own things I care for and care about that I bought with my sweat, and feel like it's worth protecting.

As for flipping cars? Still, a total dick move no matter how you want to rationalize it. Thugs, headed for prison hopefully. If it's OK, I would like to schedule a time to come flip your car or do the equivalent in property damage. Been pretty bored lately, and just ran out of AAA batteries. Please pre-approve this with your insurance company.

[Jamesp]

Originally Posted by Nine8Six

Please someone tell me Tim is joking. Tim, come back mate. Life cannot be terminated only for the sake of defending an object. You should call the nearest emergency service(s) and keep your love ones (the real/living ones I mean) safe until help arrive. Double chk with your local police dept to confirm but it should go along those lines I'm pretty sure.

No-no shooting kids - its only a few cars lol

So to be clear, I would not personally shoot anyone over any part of my car, even if they flipped it - that's just me. I also would not stop some else from protecting their property. In Michigan I had a radio stolen and as they left their tools behind I felt it was a fair trade (the radio was broken). Stealing a radio is a bit more risky in Texas. Property crimes are taken seriously here, and by law ones life can certainly be forfeit, but if you think it's over the property, then again you miss the point. It's over the behavior. The message is; 1) bad behavior has consequences, 2) people have a right to protect their property. And waiting for the Police to show up to save you and you family!?! Good luck with that, especially the part about keeping everyone safe! I'd prefer to have Smith and Wesson show up for that.

[particlewave]

I like potatoes.

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by particlewave

I like potatoes.

Potatoes aren't cool, crisps are (Chips!)

:troll:

[RawleyD]

No, Nine8Six. The Texas laws against property and personal defense are NOT Hollywood.

There are many people in the USA that still take the safety of their property and family very seriously, and will use force to defend either if the situation should arise to do so.

I'm appalled this fact would be so far over your head.

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by RawleyD

No, Nine8Six. The Texas laws against property and personal defense are NOT Hollywood.

There are many people in the USA that still take the safety of their property and family very seriously, and will use force to defend either if the situation should arise to do so.

I'm appalled this fact would be so far over your head.

Yes, Rawley, it was a bit of shocking news to me.

Left CA in my early 20s and lived & homed in 7 (seven) different countries during the last 18 years, all of which had very strict weapon bans in place. I also had to travel more than 14 other countries during my 6 years as a crew/team member when motogp was as its peak. You'd think that someone like myself have seen and heard it all, well wrong lol. Like I said, I vaguely remember hearing about this law before but again, I was under the impression that it was simply made up. For obvious reasons, I didn't get too far in finding whether it was true or not.

Like I previously said, regardless of this TX law I refuse to believe that a Texan citizen would "shoot" (read kill) another person for simple vandalism. Pulling a gun at someone as a last warning, yeah okay, beating up the crap of someone for stealing their backyard BBQ, yeah okay, but I just can't picture anyone there "pulling the trigger" in its very true meaning. You'd have to give me very hard evidence to make me believe that the "true" local culture is as you are describing in any ways. That said I am not that shattered or too worried. I am however extremely disappointed at the local/state government/emergency services for being THAT lousy. That's all.

[Lobo1186]

It's like mommy hitting daddy at the dinner table... awkward.


But, those damnable kids and their smart car flipping! On a real note if you owned a smart car or even a fiat 500, is there any practical way of making sure this would not happen to you? (barring stakeouts every night)

[batshapedheart]

I think anyone who here finds this funny, is doing so in the same way as when we watch a movie where everything goes wrong. (IE The hangover)
There's no one here who wouldn't have their day ruined if this was to happen to them.
I guess we can just be happy that to tip out Boxsters it would have to be the Hulk...or Lou Ferrigno?

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by Lobo1186

It's like mommy hitting daddy at the dinner table... awkward.

I had to FW this thread to a few of my mates just to get a reality check. If you would have read some of the summary that some shot back at me, you'd be flat on your back pissing your pants

Originally Posted by Lobo1186

But, those damnable kids and their smart car flipping! On a real note if you owned a smart car or even a fiat 500, is there any practical way of making sure this would not happen to you? (barring stakeouts every night)

The problem is only global. With the exception of Canada who already seems experienced in anti car flipping tech.

[BrokenLinkage]

Believe it. It is real. Both the law, and the cultural value that says when you destroy my possessions, the work product of my life, it is like killing me a little. So expect the response to be along the same lines.
BTW, here in Alabama, they have to be breaking into your occupied house before you can freely shoot 'em without fear of legal repercussions. So if they are just flipping your car over, you can go back to bed and worry the next day, call the police and stay up all night filling out forms before dealing with it the next day, or confront them, in which case if they escalate with a weapon you can end the discussion immediately.

By way of economic illustration, lets say I make about minimum wage. So, after taxes but before I have a place to sleep, food to eat, car insurance, or any healthcare- I make just about enough in a year to afford one slightly used Smart car. In reality, it will probably take at least 5 yrs of savings to afford one, since these other things are not really optional. And some dude, just for laughs, comes along and flips it. Now I'm out the $500 deductible, the loss of work while I arrange a repair, the cost of a rental while it is being repaired, and about a $2k hit at trade-in for the "wreck" history on the Carfax. Oh, and I was late to work already twice this month, so missing that half day to deal with this, just got me fired. By my math, I've now done approximately one year of hard labor at whatever my job is, just so some joker could get his laugh on.

Or I could be one of 986's buddies from SanFran, who are apparently all earning 7 figures. In which case the cost goes up, b/c of valuable billable time wasted, but it is more trivial as a percent of income. Still a darned expensive laugh, maybe $4k.

While it would be nice if I as the minimum-wage victim could just extract restitution plus one year of the vandal's life in retribution, the fact is that if I am in a position to catch this crook in the act, I might in a heightened state of excitability just do a solid favor for his next 50 victims and go ahead and remove him from the social milieu, while at the same time reinforcing the importance of the cultural value of respect for private property, just in case any criminals-in-training were looking.

But what is lacking from the above hypothetical example is the fact that the money doesn't matter, it is the principle that counts. It doesn't matter if I make enough to buy a car every 5 minutes or every 5 years, once bought it is mine, not yours to play with, not the government's to loan me at its discretion, not the corporate motor pool workhorse, but mine. If you need to borrow it, ask. If you have a political point to make, convince me and I might support your cause with a bullhorn and door sign, but don't steal or destroy my property to support your end.
And if the end that would drive you to destroy someone else's property is something so unredeeming as your own amusement or notoriety, then you frankly are probably never going to be more than a poorly socialized or even anti-social misfit.

Nine8Six- at the risk of being redundant, you really don't get it. Or perhaps from your perspective, we don't get it. Either way, I still like you but there is a gulf that I doubt we'll ever bridge, so I plan to exit the thread after this post.
I suspect you think this car flipping stunt is socially acceptable because it is funny and nobody got hurt...much. For me there has to be a whole lot more funny and a whole lot less harm to cross that bar. And I don't think I'm alone.

And yes, many of us will defend what is ours. After all, it is the work product of our lives. Would I shoot somebody for crapping their dog in my yard... no. What if they were defacing a multimillion dollar antique car that was the focus of my life effort for 7 years?... Well, hopefully he would make the choice more easy by supplying some mitigating circumstance, or directly threatening me or my family, or maybe just by insulting me really bad (JK), but there are a lot a shades of gray, and death is just one of the risks voluntarily assumed by that criminal.
But the fact is, that the crime is to be a willful and unrepentant vandal in the first place, and they would both be criminals bearing whatever risk the law allows, the risk of extra-legal response, and hopefully social sanction against their actions as well.

And this last item, the social sanction, is what you don't seem to get. If you don't say in absolute terms that it is "bad," whether because you haven't fully thought out the implications (categorical imperative) , or because you can't resolve this with a self-image haunted by some similar past action of your own, or because you are so wealthy that the cost of a Smart car seems as trivial to you as the cost of my lunch, or whatever, then for many of us it is hard to relate to you.
Most of our lives are marked by a struggle to accumulate capital as a token of security in this world, and now you are saying in essence that this effort should not be respected, nor for that matter even defended, that it is ok to attack an individual's ability to accumulate wealth and security, just for a laugh. There is a cultural disconnect here (regarding personal discipline and social fealty in a free society) that appears bigger than the pictured U-lock on the Smart Cars.

Oh, Will that lock thing mount on the Boxster RTS?

Peace and Goodwill

[Nine8Six]

BL - What I was trying to achieve was to diffuse the situation and try to cool down a few members over what appeared "to me" just a bunch of kid (intoxicated, having social issues, or plainly bored, whatever) flipping a few smart Cars. Initially leaving the part about you or someone else (potential) unfortunate financial situation completely way (wayyy) far out of the scope.

What if this have happened to your car one asked. Fair enough comment but it did not happen to me or you.

I didn't meant that I'm cool with going flipping everybody's cars in the world. I see some took it that way, fragile little things lol. What I was trying to mean was as long as nobody got hurt in case "alone", therefore some (members) might be better to laugh at a car news like this instead of going on about shooting kids, ruining their future by putting them in prison, or what else some nasty person would think about doing to a harmless (again, in this case alone) troubled KID for just a STUPID CAR STORY.

That part just didn't made sense to me so I jumped in and stupidly try the "Hey super kewl here mouah ha er ha, nothing worse than other problems we have to deal before this one, carry on" IDIOT comment.

Without thinking that few obviously seen it as if "it just happened to themselves".

I'll never forgive Jamesp for saying this at first place but still love him for his ingenuity and absolutely fascinating engineering skills. I really had a massive sense of humor failure when I first saw his post and some of others (early morning I think). I went completely fizzy.

I really had to try everything I could JUST to try to SELL the idea that we should be cool with kids, no matter what they do or cause to a society (or to a car forum crow, clearly)

sorry it didn't worked out, truly sorry actually

PS: went as far as throwing my dog pooh story. what a f^%$&&g jerk I am

[kjc2050]

Originally Posted by Nine8Six

Without thinking that few obviously seen it as if "it just happened to themselves".

No, this isn't it at all. There's a larger issue here which you don't seem to grasp. As members of a society, when we condone and encourage stupidity and bad behavior, we all are diminished in a small way, and society suffers. Over time it adds up.

That's why the comments "cool," "hysterical," and "FUNNY" are bothersome to some of us. You are focusing on a single act and not its broader implications.

It would be best if this thread were shut down, and Nine8Six, you really would be doing yourself a favor if you were to stop commenting on this topic. Seriously.

[Timco]

Originally Posted by Nine8Six

BL - What I was trying to achieve was to diffuse the situation and try to cool down a few members over what appeared "to me" just a bunch of kid (intoxicated, having social issues, or plainly bored, whatever) flipping a few smart Cars. Initially leaving the part about you or someone else (potential) unfortunate financial situation completely way (wayyy) far out of the scope.

What if this have happened to your car one asked. Fair enough comment but it did not happen to me or you.

I didn't meant that I'm cool with going flipping everybody's cars in the world. I see some took it that way, fragile little things lol. What I was trying to mean was as long as nobody got hurt in case "alone", therefore some (members) might be better to laugh at a car news like this instead of going on about shooting kids, ruining their future by putting them in prison, or what else some nasty person would think about doing to a harmless (again, in this case alone) troubled KID for just a STUPID CAR STORY.

That part just didn't made sense to me so I jumped in and stupidly try the "Hey super kewl here mouah ha er ha, nothing worse than other problems we have to deal before this one, carry on" IDIOT comment.

Without thinking that few obviously seen it as if "it just happened to themselves".

I'll never forgive Jamesp for saying this at first place but still love him for his ingenuity and absolutely fascinating engineering skills. I really had a massive sense of humor failure when I first saw his post and some of others (early morning I think). I went completely fizzy.

I really had to try everything I could JUST to try to SELL the idea that we should be cool with kids, no matter what they do or cause to a society (or to a car forum crow, clearly)

sorry it didn't worked out, truly sorry actually

PS: went as far as throwing my dog pooh story. what a f^%$&&g jerk I am

Ummm, it's not that it "just" happened to ourselves, rather, if it happens to my neighbor, I may be next. What's to stop those bored kids, right? So, we should not imagine this can happen to us, but you can imagine this was bored or drunk or AAA battery-challenged kids??

What is your fascination with this being an act of teenagers or kids? Just as you say it didn't happen to us, you were not there and it may have been a group of 50 year olds. How would you or I know?

And dude, get over the completely stupid "shoot kids" line. It's very uneducated. I may confront someone while armed, but for f__ks sakes! I'm not going to set up sniper style in my back room window and take them out like I do rats! Or maybe bind their hands at gunpoint and do the back of head execution thing? Oh, the drama.....imagine the possibilities!

Never forgive another member for having an opinion? I have not forgiven you for saying stupid things regarding this topic because that's the difference between left & right politics, and you are entitled to your (absurd) opinion, so there's nothing worthy of forgiving.

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by BrokenLinkage

Oh, Will that lock thing mount on the Boxster RTS?

You don't need one, nobody would vandal a 'Porsche' car. Never happened. I see it coming soon to this poor chap tho

Originally Posted by BrokenLinkage

Oh, Will that lock thing mount on the Boxster RTS?

Peace and Goodwill

man, you bet. Not hating anyone - except for james a little

[Jamesp]

Originally Posted by Nine8Six

You don't need one, nobody would vandal a 'Porsche' car. Never happened. I see it coming soon to this poor chap tho





man, you bet. Not hating anyone - except for james a little

986, you and I are from very different cultures and we can learn a lot from one another. First off, (my bias) there should be no reason to have to forgive anyone for telling you about a culture outside your perceptions of your norm. And (from my cultural bias) never forgiving shows a character weakness that deserves nothing less than pity, but I don't think you say those words with the same meaning that I would say them. Forgiving and moving on increases strength of character in the one doing the forgiving. Texas is Texas, we Texans are mainly friendly and polite to everyone. I'm exactly the kind of person you want to see coming if you have a flat tire, if you waive me over you have a ride or I'd change your tire if you couldn't. I'm also a soft touch, when someone is clearly hungry I'll feed them if I can. I gave an elderly gentleman $20 last week because he looked, and said he was hungry, and that was the only cash I had in my wallet. And still I shoot the "children" (well, not personally), a riddle here to be sure. The chances of me harming anyone, or not helping them when they need it is practically nil. On hate, again a cultural bias is working here. To me, that's a big deal. I believe no one should hate anyone, and as it leads down a very dark road. I was taught to love, not hate. Love means everyone including the jerk who just cut me off in traffic, (and the "children").

So my bias is don't hate, even a little. 986 I don't have anything to forgive you for as I take no offense to you expressing a cultural bias (flipping cars is funny) even though (and you and other may chuckle here) I think it exemplifies an entitlement attitude that is damaging to society. That's ok, I may not agree with it, but I defend your right to say it. And even though I find that attitude wrong in the extreme, there's no reason to not forgive or hate because of it. I prefer to learn through our differences. If you ever come to Houston look me up and we'll go to the gun range, you tend to meet really nice folks there. Nothing like living in a culture to understand it.

And your headlights look awesome, DOT sticker or not.

[kjc2050]

Sorry if my comment seemed harsh or hostile, but he digs himself deeper with every comment. As they say, "just my opinion."