Nascar

[prOk]

I too miss the days when F1 was fun to watch Before Senna ) All forms of racing, although different, require talented drivers and finely tuned cars to do what they do. Just because one may not like a certain style of racing does not make it right to stereotype those that do.. I'm a nascar fan, and I know many others that are definitely not beer swilling mulletheadded rednecks from the trailer park as some here have so gracefully inferred. I won't offend your idea of what is fun and in return, try not to offend mine

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by prOk

... Just because one may not like a certain style of racing does not make it right to stereotype those that do.. I'm a nascar fan, and I know many others that are definitely not beer swilling mulletheadded rednecks from the trailer park as some here have so gracefully inferred...

Hi,

The problem with challenging someone's Political Correctness for using a Stereotype is that you have to actually acknowledge that Stereotype to do it.

Stereotypes do not apply Universally, they just apply in General...

What's that saying about People in Glass Houses...??

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[JackG]

MNBoxster wrote:

"The problem with challenging someone's Political Correctness for using a Stereotype is that you have to actually acknowledge that Stereotype to do it."

Wrong. He simply said you shouldn't apply a stereotype to NASCAR fans just because you don't like NASCAR. He then went on to tell you how he thought your stereotype was incorrect. No acknowledgement was there, and there was no accusation of being politically incorrect.


and wrote: "Stereotypes do not apply Universally, they just apply in General..."

Again, wrong. Stereotypes, when used, don't necessarily have to apply at all. I could say "All P-car owners have wives/girlfriends named Buffy, and hang out at the yacht club wearing a sweater tied around their shoulders". Does that now apply to P-car owners in general, as you said? Of course not... some hang out at the golf course and wear plaid pants!

and wrote: "What's that saying about People in Glass Houses...?? "

And what's that one about being silent and being considered an idiot, or speaking up and removing all doubt?

Cheers!

Jack <- no big fan of NASCAR

[Ronzi]

Ref: "Do you think NASCAR would be as popular if wrecks never happened?"

Absolutely not.
The wrecks are the only way the average fan has of knowing that those guys are really trying instead of just driving around in a circle for 3 hours and collecting a big paycheck at the end.
That's the big problem with F1 nowadays: not enough wrecks.

[BuffaloBoxster]

Originally Posted by Ronzi

Ref: "Do you think NASCAR would be as popular if wrecks never happened?"

Absolutely not.
The wrecks are the only way the average fan has of knowing that those guys are really trying instead of just driving around in a circle for 3 hours and collecting a big paycheck at the end.
That's the big problem with F1 nowadays: not enough wrecks.

So why aren't the ratings off the chart for WRC? These guys roll down cliffs and hit trees.

[MNBoxster]

@JackG,

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, as are we all... I simply don't agree with you...

I take my Hits, but give as good as I get... looks like this time I'm on the receiving end... That's OK... Peace...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Perfectlap]

one more thing, watching Nascar to me is probably allot like watching F1. We don't understand why we watch it because frankly both are very dull. But we still watch one of the two religiously, or we don't watch it all.

I was a huge fan of the CART series in the mid 90's up until Penske packed his bags and went for the big money at the IRL. CART was low tech but it didn't allow the drivers to hide behind endles driver's aids and gizmos to hide their mistakes. CART had fantastic variety of oval, road and street circuits with real overtakings (not just boring pit stop lead changes) and the talent of drivers was very good with at least 12 driver in the formula in the series on merit alone. One season saw 10 differnt winners in a single season. NOw that's something to look forward to.

But the CART formula was mis managed, mismarketed and not enough home grown talent was developed. Now its just a spectacle of pay drivers who have lowered the bar considerably. And you can't even see it on most cable TV networks.

So we have NASCAR and F1.... ZZZZZZZ

[Ronzi]

Ref. "So why aren't the ratings off the chart for WRC? These guys roll down cliffs and hit trees."

Maybe because car brands like Citroen and Peugeot are a joke in the US and can not possibly be considered able to produce anything but the endless string of hopeless loser cars imported here during the '60s and '70s.

The demise of CART is of course traceable directly to a power struggle between Tony George and the CART team owners. Tony held the ace-in-the-hole in the form of the Indianapolis Speedway and the Indy 500. The one thing the CART guys could never overcome was the importance of the 500 to sponsors and advertisers. When they were in effect shut out of the 500, it initiated a slow desertion of teams to the IRL.
The CART/IRL war seems to be about over, with the IRL and Indianapolis the ultimate victor, although the 500 was almost destroyed in the process.
CART certainly was mismanaged and that played a big part in their problems, but I think the bottom line was the Indy 500. It was the only race the public gave a damn about, so it ultimately was the one race the car owners HAD to be able to run.

[JackG]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

So we have NASCAR and F1.... ZZZZZZZ

Agreed! I was a fan of F1 years ago during the Senna and Prost days, but soon fell out with it. Same for NASCAR, it was fun back in the old days when they really (sort of) "Raced on Sunday, Sold on Monday", but no more. I now glance at the results on Monday and watch a half of a race a year.

I did do 18 laps at Lowe's Motor Speedway about 4 years ago in the the Richard Petty Experience. It was a blast! After I drove my laps, I did the 3 lap ride-along to see what a 170+mph lap feels like. A big difference from my 140+ laps. Those guys doing it on Sunday, two and three wide, nose to tail, at 200mph do have both talent and guts, whether you like that kind of racing or not.

Ah well... back to Boxsters!

Jack

[blinkwatt]

I think we all should focus on ALMS instead of NASCAR. People who drive Mustangs,Camaros and Corvettes should watch Nascar. People who drive fully balanced cars watch ALMS. Too bad ALMS isnt stopping by the local Infineon Raceway this year,maybe I will head to Laguna Seca.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by blinkwatt

I think we all should focus on ALMS instead of NASCAR. People who drive Mustangs,Camaros and Corvettes should watch Nascar. People who drive fully balanced cars watch ALMS. Too bad ALMS isnt stopping by the local Infineon Raceway this year,maybe I will head to Laguna Seca.

Actually, the Corvette has dominated the ALMS series from the get, dominating Saleens, Maseratis, Vipers and Aston Martins and anything else they throw at them. These cars among the fastest and finest handling cars in the world.

To my knowledge, they do NOT run NASCAR.

[JackG]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

Actually, the Corvette has dominated the ALMS series from the get, dominating Saleens, Maseratis, Vipers and Aston Martins and anything else they throw at them. These cars among the fastest and finest handling cars in the world.

To my knowledge, they do NOT run NASCAR.

True, but a Corvette was used as a pace car for last week's Daytona 500. It joins such lofty company as Mustangs, Camaros, and Trans Ams.

Kidding!!!

Jack

[BuffaloBoxster]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

Actually, the Corvette has dominated the ALMS series from the get, dominating Saleens, Maseratis, Vipers and Aston Martins and anything else they throw at them. These cars among the fastest and finest handling cars in the world.

To my knowledge, they do NOT run NASCAR.

Those Vettes are about as close to street cars as the NASCAR Monte Carlo is to its street counterpart. They're tube frame racers with larger displacement motors.

I love ALMS and applaud their fan-friendly attitude, but all is not well there either. The prototype division is fractured in that the Audis had dominated P1, while from this year on you won't have a prayer in P2 if you don't have a Porsche RS Spyder. In GT1 the Corvettes are totally dominant, mostly because nobody is campaigning the Ferrari or Aston Martin cars in the US (I understand Aston will be here this season though). GT2 has been a 911 dominated category forever.

I hope and pray they will consolidate the classes, leaving only one prototype class and a stock-based GT class before the series begins to fall apart due to lack of participation.

[Ronzi]

Ref. ALMS:

... and of course there is a political power struggle brewing between ALMS and the NASCAR-bankrolled Grand Am series. That's why all those NASCAR guys turn up driving in the Daytona 24.

[Brucelee]

"In GT1 the Corvettes are totally dominant, mostly because nobody is campaigning the Ferrari or Aston Martin cars in the US (I understand Aston will be here this season though). "

Actually, Corvette has won at Lemans every year they have raced with the C5s and 6s. They have consistently wasted the AM cars and well, where is Ferrari at Lemans?

Moreover, the current z06 is very much built on the C6R platorm.

Face it, Corvettes (street and race) are the real deal.

[BuffaloBoxster]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

"In GT1 the Corvettes are totally dominant, mostly because nobody is campaigning the Ferrari or Aston Martin cars in the US (I understand Aston will be here this season though). "

Actually, Corvette has won at Lemans every year they have raced with the C5s and 6s. They have consistently wasted the AM cars and well, where is Ferrari at Lemans?

Moreover, the current z06 is very much built on the C6R platorm.

Face it, Corvettes (street and race) are the real deal.

That's not entirely true. Aston won LeMans last year, and two years ago the race was being handily led by a 550 Maranello until it burned to the ground.

And I take back my tube-frame comment - it appears the two do share a chassis and now in the Z06 C6 an engine. This was not the case (the engine) until the C6R.

I don't deny that the Vettes are the real deal, but they do have significant factory baking that the Ferrari and Aston teams lack. It's the same reason why the privateer Ferrari teams couldn't win againt the 911s with a 360 Modena when the street version of the two cars would lead you to believe otherwise. You've got to admit that a manufacturer the size of Saleen has a huge task ahead of him to compete with a GM factory program. It's apples to oranges.

[Brucelee]

"That's not entirely true. Aston won LeMans last year, and two years ago the race was being handily led by a 550 Maranello until it burned to the ground."

Corvette won the LeMans race last year in its class. Aston Martin did not win.
I am not sure about the Maranello but of course, it did not finish so, well, it did not win!


"And I take back my tube-frame comment - it appears the two do share a chassis and now in the Z06 C6 an engine. This was not the case (the engine) until the C6R."

Correct.

"I don't deny that the Vettes are the real deal, but they do have significant factory baking that the Ferrari and Aston teams lack. It's the same reason why the privateer Ferrari teams couldn't win againt the 911s with a 360 Modena when the street version of the two cars would lead you to believe otherwise. You've got to admit that a manufacturer the size of Saleen has a huge task ahead of him to compete with a GM factory program. It's apples to oranges."

I don't agree on the apples to oranges issue. All these cars qualify in the same class. Frankly, the Saleen is a out and out race car that they sell for the street. Moreover, the Aston Martins DO have factory backing as well.

I was simply reacting to lumping the Corvette in with the NASCAR crowd. These C6s handle like world class cars and yet one still sees comments on Corvette handling that stem from the old C3.

Since the C4, a corvette will handle with just about any car out there and they do it pretty cheaply too!

Having said that, I love my Porsches too!