Another RMS

[MikenOH]

Both use a flat layout rather than a V but I'm thinking that's where the similarity ends.
I'm not familiar with the Subaru block/crank set up---do you have any info as to how the crankshaft is supported in the Subaru vs. the Boxster? The Boxster's crank in supported by some sort of cradle that is bolted to the block casting--help me out guys, if I'm off on this.

I'd be interested in Subaru's approach to their "H" engine since the WRX's output is 300HP in it's newest configuration. I could be wrong but I'd guess their approach to the block rigidity is more conventional than Porsche's. Last I've heard, their isn't an RMS club on the WRX forum.

In any event, I think it would be an interesting comparison to see how two different car manufacturers with engines of similar design, dealt with supporting the crankshaft.

[jamscal]

You guys are scaring the crap out of me.

I have a few questions if you don't mind, and I'll tell you my story.

Bought my '01 S from a speciality car dealer. It was a lease return apparently. Had around 20K miles.

I did what I thought was research on the model, read about the RMS Leak, but didn't and still don't fully understand the ramifications of that. Certainly not complete engine failure.

Dealer said (HA, I know) Boxsters are reliable, etc. you probably don't want an extended warranty.

Test drove the car, got it heated up, etc. There were no oil leaks either after it was hot or before, parked on the epoxied showroom floor.

The car has been wonderful and trouble free, but lately, I guess 5 months after I've bought it, I see a few drops of oil on the floor...I'm assuming RMS. Center of car...I'll check it out when I have time.

Questions:

1. How does a leaking seal cause complete engine failure, where the end result is the purchase of a 10k engine?

I can understand how a catastrophic failure of the seal, and the engine running, could ruin it, but how else?

I can also understand clutch problems w/ oil everywhere.

2. Should the RMS be replaced as a matter of course with a clutch replacement? Or only in case of a leak?

3. Is there some sort of web site with complete info regarding the RMS issue, or is it just like this...a bunch of people discussing a problem to the best of their knowledge.

I'd like to see a comprehensive discussion of the problem, all the ramifications of the problem, stories of the complete engine failures (Haven't seen much on those, online, firsthand at least), etc. on a website.


Thanks in advance for any help or enlightment.

James

'01 Boxster S
Orient Red
18's
And I still love it...so far.

[gRed04]

Originally Posted by jamscal

1. How does a leaking seal cause complete engine failure, where the end result is the purchase of a 10k engine?

Hi James,

There are really two RMS leaks you hear about.

One is a leak due to a defective seal. Just need to replace it and you are good to go.

The second is a leak due crankshaft movement. Replacing a seal here does not help and this is where you may need a engine replacement. Porsche has a tool that checks and determines this condition.

There is alot of discussion that the engine design causes ( or allows ) crankshaft movement so it is believed that potentially all engines will eventually have this issue.

Not sure I buy that as you can read about many happy owners with lots of miles and smiles. However, I am no mechanical engineer or even mechanic for that matter so just my opinion.

I thought someone published a pretty good tech article about this issue in detail. Anybody have the link to that? Thought it may be PCNA?

[Brucelee]

I hope we didn't wig you out too much. Frankly, I don't have any data that suggests that Boxster motors crater at any greater rate than others.

The RMS issue is real though and no, we don't have any reliable publised numbers on how likely you would be to get one.

If you develop a good relationship with your service advisor at Porsche, he will give you tons of good infor on the car, most of which is never published.

[MikenOH]

as Bruce said, don't be too freaked out. I just voted with my wallet and bought an '06' after owning a '99'. If I thought that major mechanical problems were a given, I'd have gone another way.

Having said that, extended warranties can take some of the worry out of owning a car like a Boxster. I bought one for the '99' from the dealer and it ran about $1500 for an additional 4 years; we only drive 6K/ year so mileage was only 60K total on the coverage. I felt better buying it from the dealer-the policy was under written by Primus (Ford)--rather than a stand-alone insurance company given how one extended warranty company failed recently.

Not sure if you can buy one for your car now, but GEICO(?) I think offers coverage on mechanical parts as part of their automotive policies. My brother had a Chrysler tranny replaced at around 80K and it only cost him the $200 deductible.

[jamscal]

Thanks for the clarification and reassurance, guys.

I've read a bit more on it at PCA.org...but there's a bunch of info to look at.

I guess by 'bad engine' it is meant that it won't hold allow an RMS to seal, due to the crank not being aligned, and not that it locks up/ stops running.

I also infer from some sites that Porsche replaces (Replaced) engines under warranty, and they are shipped back without being opened... making an aftermarket type solution difficult or impossible, at least this early in the game.

That is, if there is a solution.

BTW I have a Nissan vg30et in an early rx-7, and they use one of those 'crank cradles'... supposed to be super strong.

I've read where the stock vg block was used in those red white and blue Nissan GTP cars from years ago, to 700HP.

Thanks again,

James

[RandallNeighbour]

jamscal:

One thing no one has written to you yet is the fact that a drop or two of oil on your garage floor should not be instantly assumed to be an RMS issue. My driver's side cam cover drips a little now and then, and what I thought was an RMS leak turned out to be some oil dripping from the filter housing after an oil change.

My mechanic said lots of boxsters and 996's have cam cover leaks... and not to be bothered by it until it gets stead or you have a couple of hundred bucks to throw at a new gasket and labor. I see no noticeable loss in oil due to this leak.

Don't jump to conlusions. Get the car on a lift and look at it with a flashlight. You may have little to worry about.

Plus, the RMS issues typically start as a drip and then get worse from what I've read, so if you watch the garage floor it will tell you if the car is symptomatic before you have catastrophic engine failure. So take another deep breath

[Ronzi]

I don't think the issue is whether or not the RMS ultimately leaks. It's probably like a water pump. Every car that has one will ultimately suffer a water pump failure. But that doesn't necessarily mean the pump or it's design was defective.
The question is one of premature failure.
What, then, is premature failue?
We could probably all agree that RMS failure at 20k miles would be premature.
How about 50K miles?
How about 50K miles with a (gasp) RACING or DE history?
How about 80K miles?
Etc.
If we ever see the results of this "survey" that is presumably being conducted independantly of Porsche, we may get a few answers, such as are the newer cars statistically less likely to experience RMS failure, or failure at increased mileage. I suspect this is the case but obviously I have no data to back up that opinion.
This issue is probably much like the 911 timing chain tensioner situation from years ago, mentioned earlier on this thread. Porsche made a series of design changes that over time resulted in the elimination of the problem, but it took a while.